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Honda 1.5T #4547367
10/18/17 04:27 PM
10/18/17 04:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Danh Offline OP
Danh  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Though I don't own one I nevertheless became involved in a discussion about fuel dilution in Honda's 1.5T engine on a different forum.

As part of this I looked for every UOA I could find on this engine and found a dozen on Civic forums. Of this dozen:

1) 5 had fuel dilution tested by gas chromotography. All 5 had fuel dilution greater than 5%
2) 10 of the 12 used 0w-20. Used 100C viscosity ranged from 5.4 to 6.8 cSt, with a typical reading in the low 6s ( so shedding 2-3 cSt from new)
3) 2 used xxw-30 and had used 100C viscosities of 7.1 and 7.5 (shedding 3-4 cSt)

So, this engine sure seems to be a fuel diluter design, or at least with Honda's knowledge. This consistency suggests manufacturing variances, break-in or driving styles aren't the culprit.

This engine is being used on the Civic, CRV and Accord with the better part of a million 1.5Ts being produced every year. With this volume and this risk, one would think Honda would be absolutely sure that fuel dilution like this was relatively harmless. On the other hand, Honda's record isn't exactly unblemished and this level of fuel dilution could be the result of difficult compromises, like preventing LSPI, with the ultimate outcome in doubt. And for those of us that have been around a while, any fuel dilution seems like a bad thing.

So what do you folks think? Honda has this all under control? This is just the new normal so get used to it? This is a problem but probably won't have an impact until warranty is long over? Don't drive next to one on the highway? Would you buy one?

Just curious. Thanks.

Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547371
10/18/17 04:31 PM
10/18/17 04:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,222
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,222
Wet side WA
I'd considered the CR-V until this Kraap popped up. But maybe another year or ten.

Last edited by JohnnyJohnson; 10/18/17 04:31 PM.

2004 Corolla 124805
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74277
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 74705 4-22-18
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547408
10/18/17 05:46 PM
10/18/17 05:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,452
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,452
Soviet State of Washington
I also was considering a purchase of the CRV but this issue squashed that idea.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547414
10/18/17 05:50 PM
10/18/17 05:50 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
parshisa Offline
parshisa  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
Just for the stats, my re-tested sample showed no fuel dilution as opposed to initially tested as 5% plus. I'm not sure on which one is correct. Although worth to mention that total volume in the sump have never changed in 5400mi. Same thing with the current one - level is rock solid. So I'm not really sure if the drop in viscosity is purely due to fuel dilution. Perhaps it is a function of the turbo as well. As far as your question goes, I'm not really too too concerned about it. I will go one grade up, use good true synthetic oil. limit OCI to 6-7K and run oil analysis for 2-3 OCI just to make sure it is working fine me and go from there. So far the car is a blast to drive, great fuel economy and overall perfect for daily commuting. Just make sure you get a manual - CVT is no bueno. Hope this helps


2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547442
10/18/17 06:28 PM
10/18/17 06:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,634
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 21,634
Orlando, FL
Why not a normal 2.0L non turbo engine?

I also will not buy any vehicle with this engine.

Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Mr Nice] #4547463
10/18/17 06:42 PM
10/18/17 06:42 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
parshisa Offline
parshisa  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
All honda direct injected engines are great fuel diluters. My 3.5V6 NA pilot engine dilutes as well. 2.4 accord engines do the same. this is direct injection engine tuned for emissions.

Last edited by parshisa; 10/18/17 06:43 PM.

2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547467
10/18/17 06:44 PM
10/18/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 302
San Diego
FlyPenFly Offline
FlyPenFly  Offline
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 302
San Diego
I wonder if the fuel dilution could be a result of strategies in newer DI engines to remediate intake carbon buildup.


2014 Mercedes GLK350 3.5L DFI
2014 Mercedes E350 Coupe 3.5L DFI
2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara 2.7L V6
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: parshisa] #4547468
10/18/17 06:44 PM
10/18/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,000
Texas
I just canít understand this 0w16 stuff going on in the background Ö whatís left when fuel gets in that? WD40?

Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547488
10/18/17 07:01 PM
10/18/17 07:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,767
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,767
The Midwest
This is probably a "what you don't know, won't hurt you" sorta thing. The CR-V can still be had with a 2.4L engine in the base LX trim in both FWD and AWD.
But don't expect a Honda 1.5 T engine to last as long as say a Civic from yesteryear with a port injected engine.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: 4WD] #4547490
10/18/17 07:04 PM
10/18/17 07:04 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
parshisa Offline
parshisa  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
TO be fair, even with the 0w20 diluted to 16 grade all the UOA reports for this engines that are out there show really good numbers. I guess as far as metal counts go FD is not a big issue


2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: parshisa] #4547502
10/18/17 07:17 PM
10/18/17 07:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Danh Offline OP
Danh  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Originally Posted By: parshisa
TO be fair, even with the 0w20 diluted to 16 grade all the UOA reports for this engines that are out there show really good numbers. I guess as far as metal counts go FD is not a big issue


I've experienced the same thing with my K24W. Encouraging, but how can this be? And are UOAs really indicators of engine wear? Such a conundrum...

Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547504
10/18/17 07:20 PM
10/18/17 07:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,755
Crawfordville FL
I think at the 20 grade it's more about the additive packs and boundary lubrication.

I'd much rather have them not run so rich and close the intake valves early or something instead of wasting so much fuel.

Too many compromises being made. Automakers aren't willing to require high octane fuel, EPA says low emissions, and downsizing with a turbo means very high effective compression ratio.

I'd like to see one of these extreme diluters retuned around E85. It has the massive cooling effect and is very knock-resistant. Tweak the transmission to move the shift points up a bit and test. I bet dilution would be greatly reduced. If not the ethanol portion of the fuel would evaporate right out to be collected by the pcv system once the engine warmed up.


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: 4WD] #4547532
10/18/17 07:41 PM
10/18/17 07:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,633
Dallas,Tx USA
aquariuscsm Offline
aquariuscsm  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 18,633
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: 4WD
I just canít understand this 0w16 stuff going on in the background Ö left when fuel gets in that?


Fumes! grin


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20

Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh] #4547550
10/18/17 07:48 PM
10/18/17 07:48 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
parshisa Offline
parshisa  Offline
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 692
TX
I guess even as low as 16 grade oil is capable to create sufficient film and minimize friction/metal to metal contact thus low wear numbers. I guess toyota tested their new engines since they recommend 0w16 from now on for all 4 cylinders


2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30
Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: parshisa] #4547560
10/18/17 07:50 PM
10/18/17 07:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,452
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,452
Soviet State of Washington
Originally Posted By: parshisa
I guess even as low as 16 grade oil is capable to create sufficient film and minimize friction/metal to metal contact thus low wear numbers. I guess toyota tested their new engines since they recommend 0w16 from now on for all 4 cylinders




With fuel dilution that might be a 12wt by the time itís dumped.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

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