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#4547367 - 10/18/17 04:27 PM Honda 1.5T
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1749
Loc: .
Though I don't own one I nevertheless became involved in a discussion about fuel dilution in Honda's 1.5T engine on a different forum.

As part of this I looked for every UOA I could find on this engine and found a dozen on Civic forums. Of this dozen:

1) 5 had fuel dilution tested by gas chromotography. All 5 had fuel dilution greater than 5%
2) 10 of the 12 used 0w-20. Used 100C viscosity ranged from 5.4 to 6.8 cSt, with a typical reading in the low 6s ( so shedding 2-3 cSt from new)
3) 2 used xxw-30 and had used 100C viscosities of 7.1 and 7.5 (shedding 3-4 cSt)

So, this engine sure seems to be a fuel diluter design, or at least with Honda's knowledge. This consistency suggests manufacturing variances, break-in or driving styles aren't the culprit.

This engine is being used on the Civic, CRV and Accord with the better part of a million 1.5Ts being produced every year. With this volume and this risk, one would think Honda would be absolutely sure that fuel dilution like this was relatively harmless. On the other hand, Honda's record isn't exactly unblemished and this level of fuel dilution could be the result of difficult compromises, like preventing LSPI, with the ultimate outcome in doubt. And for those of us that have been around a while, any fuel dilution seems like a bad thing.

So what do you folks think? Honda has this all under control? This is just the new normal so get used to it? This is a problem but probably won't have an impact until warranty is long over? Don't drive next to one on the highway? Would you buy one?

Just curious. Thanks.

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#4547371 - 10/18/17 04:31 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
JohnnyJohnson Online   content


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2742
Loc: Wet side WA
I'd considered the CR-V until this Kraap popped up. But maybe another year or ten.


Edited by JohnnyJohnson (10/18/17 04:31 PM)
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2004 Toyota Corolla 121707
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74047
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

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#4547408 - 10/18/17 05:46 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4285
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
I also was considering a purchase of the CRV but this issue squashed that idea.
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#4547414 - 10/18/17 05:50 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 527
Loc: TX
Just for the stats, my re-tested sample showed no fuel dilution as opposed to initially tested as 5% plus. I'm not sure on which one is correct. Although worth to mention that total volume in the sump have never changed in 5400mi. Same thing with the current one - level is rock solid. So I'm not really sure if the drop in viscosity is purely due to fuel dilution. Perhaps it is a function of the turbo as well. As far as your question goes, I'm not really too too concerned about it. I will go one grade up, use good true synthetic oil. limit OCI to 6-7K and run oil analysis for 2-3 OCI just to make sure it is working fine me and go from there. So far the car is a blast to drive, great fuel economy and overall perfect for daily commuting. Just make sure you get a manual - CVT is no bueno. Hope this helps
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2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
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#4547442 - 10/18/17 06:28 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
Mr Nice Offline


Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 21195
Loc: Orlando, FL
Why not a normal 2.0L non turbo engine?

I also will not buy any vehicle with this engine.

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#4547463 - 10/18/17 06:42 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Mr Nice]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 527
Loc: TX
All honda direct injected engines are great fuel diluters. My 3.5V6 NA pilot engine dilutes as well. 2.4 accord engines do the same. this is direct injection engine tuned for emissions.


Edited by parshisa (10/18/17 06:43 PM)
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2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30

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#4547467 - 10/18/17 06:44 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
FlyPenFly Offline


Registered: 08/04/04
Posts: 250
Loc: San Diego
I wonder if the fuel dilution could be a result of strategies in newer DI engines to remediate intake carbon buildup.
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#4547468 - 10/18/17 06:44 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: parshisa]
4WD Offline


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6372
Loc: Texas
I just canít understand this 0w16 stuff going on in the background Ö whatís left when fuel gets in that? WD40?

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#4547488 - 10/18/17 07:01 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
skyactiv Offline


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4396
Loc: The Midwest
This is probably a "what you don't know, won't hurt you" sorta thing. The CR-V can still be had with a 2.4L engine in the base LX trim in both FWD and AWD.
But don't expect a Honda 1.5 T engine to last as long as say a Civic from yesteryear with a port injected engine.
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#4547490 - 10/18/17 07:04 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: 4WD]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 527
Loc: TX
TO be fair, even with the 0w20 diluted to 16 grade all the UOA reports for this engines that are out there show really good numbers. I guess as far as metal counts go FD is not a big issue
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2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
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#4547502 - 10/18/17 07:17 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: parshisa]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1749
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: parshisa
TO be fair, even with the 0w20 diluted to 16 grade all the UOA reports for this engines that are out there show really good numbers. I guess as far as metal counts go FD is not a big issue


I've experienced the same thing with my K24W. Encouraging, but how can this be? And are UOAs really indicators of engine wear? Such a conundrum...

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#4547504 - 10/18/17 07:20 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1657
Loc: Crawfordville FL
I think at the 20 grade it's more about the additive packs and boundary lubrication.

I'd much rather have them not run so rich and close the intake valves early or something instead of wasting so much fuel.

Too many compromises being made. Automakers aren't willing to require high octane fuel, EPA says low emissions, and downsizing with a turbo means very high effective compression ratio.

I'd like to see one of these extreme diluters retuned around E85. It has the massive cooling effect and is very knock-resistant. Tweak the transmission to move the shift points up a bit and test. I bet dilution would be greatly reduced. If not the ethanol portion of the fuel would evaporate right out to be collected by the pcv system once the engine warmed up.
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#4547532 - 10/18/17 07:41 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: 4WD]
aquariuscsm Online   content


Registered: 12/30/06
Posts: 18170
Loc: Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: 4WD
I just canít understand this 0w16 stuff going on in the background Ö left when fuel gets in that?


Fumes! grin
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#4547550 - 10/18/17 07:48 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: Danh]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 527
Loc: TX
I guess even as low as 16 grade oil is capable to create sufficient film and minimize friction/metal to metal contact thus low wear numbers. I guess toyota tested their new engines since they recommend 0w16 from now on for all 4 cylinders
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2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30

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#4547560 - 10/18/17 07:50 PM Re: Honda 1.5T [Re: parshisa]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4285
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Originally Posted By: parshisa
I guess even as low as 16 grade oil is capable to create sufficient film and minimize friction/metal to metal contact thus low wear numbers. I guess toyota tested their new engines since they recommend 0w16 from now on for all 4 cylinders




With fuel dilution that might be a 12wt by the time itís dumped.
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