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#4544460 - 10/15/17 09:29 PM Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 2121
Loc: VA
Am I messed up when I feel like an oil filter without endcaps is inferior to an oil filter with endcaps? Am I nuts?
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#4544473 - 10/15/17 09:48 PM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17778
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Gebo
Am I messed up when I feel like an oil filter without endcaps is inferior to an oil filter with endcaps? Am I nuts?


You talking about the Toyota filters? Is so, I'd worry about the efficiency before the end cap style. grin

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#4544475 - 10/15/17 09:52 PM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 2121
Loc: VA
Yes, more or less. I'm really concerned as that is the type of filter that is called for in my Daughter's 4Runner and my Son's IS350.
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'98 LEX LS400 280K
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'02 4Runner 225K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'06 Toyota Highlander 145K
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#4544538 - 10/15/17 11:24 PM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
What's so wonderful about end caps? The endcapless type is a clever invention, I think---probably less expensive to manufacture and more reliable besides, other things being equal. You can, if you like, buy cartridge filters with end caps to fit those cars, including Frams and some Purolators. As Z06 alludes, the efficiency of Toyota filters has been questioned, but that's a separate issue.
_________________________
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#4544541 - 10/15/17 11:30 PM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
burch2217 Offline


Registered: 12/11/06
Posts: 23
Loc: Ohio
Gebo, I don't think you're messed up... Or if you are, we both are then.

You are where I was at the time of my switch to WIXs 51348 for my 2004 four cylinder Tacoma close to five years ago. I have run these mostly with a few Fram XG3614s thrown in since switching away from the D1/D3s... I just couldn't get thru the supposed efficiency hit for the D1s/D3s.

Been fine so far and have gone about 75k since making the switch.

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#4544550 - 10/15/17 11:47 PM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 17501
Loc: Clovis, CA
I'm more concerned about the filter staying together in one piece than I am about efficiency.

Efficiency is nice to have, but if the filter completely collapses in on itself and blocks the flow of oil, then efficiency isn't going to do you much good when there's no oil flowing to the engine.

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#4544563 - 10/16/17 12:39 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Merkava_4]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17778
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
I'm more concerned about the filter staying together in one piece than I am about efficiency.

Efficiency is nice to have, but if the filter completely collapses in on itself and blocks the flow of oil, then efficiency isn't going to do you much good when there's no oil flowing to the engine.

How do you equate high efficency with filter failure? No filter should collapse due to the bypass valve opening. If it does collapse, it's a piece of junk, regardless of its efficiency.

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#4544565 - 10/16/17 12:46 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
Dyusik Offline


Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 1984
Loc: US-WA
In short, yes, you are nuts.

The same glue holding the filter together with or without endcaps will fail just the same. Next time, just tear one apart to get the idea how much hydrolic pressure it will take, and then think in what situation will your filter be exposed to such pressure.
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#4544569 - 10/16/17 12:57 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Merkava_4]
CR94 Offline


Registered: 03/20/16
Posts: 1120
Loc: Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
... Efficiency is nice to have, but if the filter completely collapses in on itself and blocks the flow of oil, then efficiency isn't going to do you much good when there's no oil flowing to the engine.
At least in the case of cartridges for my car ...
In the no-end-cap Toyota (Denso) filter, the inside diameter of the media fits reasonably closely around the center tube of the filter cap, so that that tube prevents "the filter collapsing in on itself," just like the center tube in a spin-on filter. In aftermarket replacements I've seen with end caps, there's more radial clearance between the media and the center tube, so the media hypothetically could crush inward more. Some makes and models have a wider gap than others. That said, I used one with a relatively large gap, and it did not collapse at all. Anyway, better support against inward collapse looks to be an advantage of the no-end-cap type.
_________________________
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1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
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#4544585 - 10/16/17 02:10 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: ZeeOSix]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 17501
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
How do you equate high efficency with filter failure? No filter should collapse due to the bypass valve opening. If it does collapse, it's a piece of junk, regardless of its efficiency.


I could turn that around and ask you how you equate efficiency with end cap-less filters. grin2

If the filter is completely collapsed, I wouldn't expect the bypass valve to work.

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#4544592 - 10/16/17 03:05 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Merkava_4]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17778
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
How do you equate high efficiency with filter failure? No filter should collapse due to the bypass valve opening. If it does collapse, it's a piece of junk, regardless of its efficiency.


I could turn that around and ask you how you equate efficiency with end cap-less filters. grin2

If the filter is completely collapsed, I wouldn't expect the bypass valve to work.


I don't ... I equate collapsed filters with either a bad filter design that can't take a PSID up to the bypass valve setting, or a malfunctioning bypass valve.

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#4544727 - 10/16/17 07:31 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: ZeeOSix]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 5244
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
Back in the late '70's-early '80's, wasn't it Toyota which had a "multi-folded" geodesic looking medium in their filters?
I remember seeing a cut-a-way filter in my local the nearby Toyota dealer.

Does the end cap present production costs which "need" to be eliminated?

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#4544739 - 10/16/17 07:43 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
danez_yoda Offline


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 464
Loc: texas
I've use the YZZA1 canter filters on my 2007 sienna and 2014 sienna. The 07 got to 150Kmiles before the inside got so bad (kids) the wife wanted new. I've put a dozen or so filters in it and never had one show any signs of damage or calapse.

On the 07 I left it one for 15K miles because when I got it (with 19K miles), I didn't have a canister wrench and the PO tightened the [censored] out of it. The 07 was a former RENTAL as well. This is with the ole piston slap noise when accelerating. Still rolled passed 150K miles.


Relax, its easy nowadays. You really have to go out of your way to get an oil or filter that will substantially shorten the life of your engine.

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#4544740 - 10/16/17 07:43 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Dyusik]
Gebo Offline


Registered: 09/18/02
Posts: 2121
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
In short, yes, you are nuts.

The same glue holding the filter together with or without endcaps will fail just the same. Next time, just tear one apart to get the idea how much hydrolic pressure it will take, and then think in what situation will your filter be exposed to such pressure.


Thanks, I will do what you suggest. The issue was my imagination in seeing the unfiltered oil seeping in between the end of the folded filters. I felt the end caps prevented the unfiltered oil from sneaking into the ends of the folds.
_________________________
'98 LEX LS400 280K
'00 LEX GS300 195K
'02 4Runner 225K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'06 Toyota Highlander 145K
'09 Lex IS350 85K


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#4544742 - 10/16/17 07:45 AM Re: Should I Feel Bad Buying an Oil Filter W/O Endcaps [Re: Gebo]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2750
Loc: Wet side WA
I don't have one of these filters but I've been looking at cars that use them. My question is since its basically just the guts of a spin on filter why should it cost twice as much?
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