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Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 #4543714
10/15/17 02:34 AM
10/15/17 02:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 339
Cheshire, England
barryh Offline OP
barryh  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 339
Cheshire, England
Given Mercedes petrol engines have a reputation for premature wear on the timing chain drive would you risk using a low saps oil when you don't need to.

Are the anti wear additives in low saps oil as good as full saps. I suppose they could be even better.


Barry

1979 BMW R45 (Triple QX 5W40)
2009 Mercedes C180K (Shell Helix Ultra 5W40)
Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4543727
10/15/17 03:26 AM
10/15/17 03:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
bigjl Offline
bigjl  Offline
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,221
London, England
Going to view this thread with interest.

The oil specs for our Smart are rather vague, just the Merc Spec.

The 0.9 turbo petrol engine is also fitted in the Renault Twingo. I shall have a check and see what they advise as it must relate to what Smart/Mercedes specify


16 S350d LWB 25k Mobil Super 3000 XE 5w30
17 Smart ForFour Auto 6.5k Mobil 1 0w40 FS
Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4543745
10/15/17 04:38 AM
10/15/17 04:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
Originally Posted By: barryh
Given Mercedes petrol engines have a reputation for premature wear on the timing chain drive would you risk using a low saps oil when you don't need to.

Are the anti wear additives in low saps oil as good as full saps. I suppose they could be even better.


Why would low saps oils have even better anti-wear additives?

If you have an older vehicle without the modern enissions equipment that low saps was specifically designed for then what would be the advantage to running a low saps?

Lol...I guess you are asking why low saps would be better and I am asking why you assume low saps would be better.

Every bit of research I have done urges to avoid low saps oils in cars that do not require them.


Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles
Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4543827
10/15/17 08:11 AM
10/15/17 08:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,201
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,201
Waco, TX
This would require scrutiny form a chemical engineer.

Traditionally, UOA's from low-SAPS oils don't look good at all.
That's why the change interval recommendation is usually less miles.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4543862
10/15/17 08:49 AM
10/15/17 08:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 339
Cheshire, England
barryh Offline OP
barryh  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 339
Cheshire, England
Instinctively I don't think low saps is better, just trying to keep an open mind.

Part of me say 229.51 must meet the same M 271 Wear Test (MB DL, Wear, 250 h) but I just want to know if the low saps anti wear additives are in any way a compromise. It wouldn't matter if MB built engines with sound cam chain drives but they don't and they are not alone in that. I know oil shouldn't be the answer to poor engine design but it is what it is and I want to use the best oil to mitigate any potential problems.


Barry

1979 BMW R45 (Triple QX 5W40)
2009 Mercedes C180K (Shell Helix Ultra 5W40)
Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4543910
10/15/17 09:36 AM
10/15/17 09:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
BobFout Offline
BobFout  Offline
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,196
Indiana
Typically, the compromise is cost.


2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T
Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4543997
10/15/17 11:15 AM
10/15/17 11:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,601
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,601
MA
Yeah, basically for MB, it's 229.5 for gassers and 229.51 or 229.52 for diesel. They don't really seem to have any chain problems on their V6 engines so it's not really a concern. Don't know about their other engines. Lots of people here change their oil at 5k instead of waiting for the recommended 10k.

Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: Wolf359] #4544070
10/15/17 12:07 PM
10/15/17 12:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 339
Cheshire, England
barryh Offline OP
barryh  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 339
Cheshire, England
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Lots of people here change their oil at 5k instead of waiting for the recommended 10k.


Yes I'm also changing the oil at 5K which seems wasteful but may be cheap insurance. It's interesting that when I read about cam chain failures the car always seems to have a full Mercedes service history which would be anything up to 15K intervals.


Barry

1979 BMW R45 (Triple QX 5W40)
2009 Mercedes C180K (Shell Helix Ultra 5W40)
Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4544146
10/15/17 02:08 PM
10/15/17 02:08 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,601
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,601
MA
Originally Posted By: barryh
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Lots of people here change their oil at 5k instead of waiting for the recommended 10k.


Yes I'm also changing the oil at 5K which seems wasteful but may be cheap insurance. It's interesting that when I read about cam chain failures the car always seems to have a full Mercedes service history which would be anything up to 15K intervals.


It may just be a design defect and have nothing to do with the oil. On the 2006-2007 E-350's here, the balance shafts would fail, but that part was updated and had nothing to do with what oil was run. Here the service interval is now every 10k or one year, used to be 13k but I guess people don't like to run their oil that long when they used to change it every 3k on conventional. My E-350 uses 8.5 quarts so the oil isn't really used up even at 10k. Still, I end up changing it around 8-9k but occasionally let it go to almost 10k when I can't get around to it. I just have too much $2/quart oil from Autozone so I'm doing slightly more frequent oil changes.

Re: Is 229.51 as good as 229.5 [Re: barryh] #4544404
10/15/17 07:22 PM
10/15/17 07:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
IllinoisSparky Online content
IllinoisSparky  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 293
Illinois USA
Originally Posted By: barryh
Given Mercedes petrol engines have a reputation for premature wear on the timing chain drive would you risk using a low saps oil when you don't need to.

Are the anti wear additives in low saps oil as good as full saps. I suppose they could be even better.


According to this Lubrizol chart, only difference is aftertreament compatability for diesel engines.
Hope that helps.


04 Ford Explorer PP 5W-30/Puro PSL
99 MB CLK320 M1 0W-40/M1
08 MB SL550 M1 0W-40/MB
09 BMW X5 3.0i BMW 5W-30/Mann
11 MB E350 Bluetec MB 5W-30/MB

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