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#4543337 - 10/14/17 04:10 PM Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil?
ZZman Offline


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5775
Loc: Michigan
Oil companies develop motor oils with a balance in mind of performance, cleanliness, fuel economy etc. This made me wonder if many of the additives that have large amounts of things like detergents, moly, boron, ZDDP etc are actually not good and affect the balance negatively that the motor oils are meant to have.

Your thoughts?


Edited by ZZman (10/14/17 04:10 PM)
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#4543353 - 10/14/17 04:29 PM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
JohnnyJohnson Online   content


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2737
Loc: Wet side WA
The top oils today are so good compared to say the 60's why would you add anything? If you want molly for instance you just buy something like QSUD etc.


Edited by JohnnyJohnson (10/14/17 04:29 PM)
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#4543442 - 10/14/17 06:29 PM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
hyperscion Offline


Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 132
Loc: oklahoma
Do the aftermarket oil additives companys, ALSO not take into acct, of balance of oil additives, in the mix??
as in not to make the final mix of oil, not good for the engine.
Its all about money on both sides. JUST stick with 1 good oil while engine is new,,then play

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#4543541 - 10/14/17 08:14 PM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: hyperscion]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9390
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: hyperscion
Do the aftermarket oil additives companys, ALSO not take into acct, of balance of oil additives, in the mix??
as in not to make the final mix of oil, not good for the engine.
Its all about money on both sides. JUST stick with 1 good oil while engine is new,,then play

How would an additive company know the formulation of any specific oil that it might be added to? Not all formulated oils are the same nor do they use the same additive package.
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#4544879 - 10/16/17 09:06 AM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 562
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Oil companies develop motor oils with a balance in mind of performance, cleanliness, fuel economy etc. This made me wonder if many of the additives that have large amounts of things like detergents, moly, boron, ZDDP etc are actually not good and affect the balance negatively that the motor oils are meant to have.

Your thoughts?

Your wonderings and assumptions are correct. They are (in general) not good for the balance and will negatively affect performance in some way. It might not be obvious but they are rarely benign and even more rarely beneficial.

An improvement is not impossible, but it is both unlikely and unrepeatable if attempted by another person in another car. If an improvement were obtained, it would be out of pure random luck that the specific concentration of that specific additive worked synergistically with the existing additives of the oil (Yes, synergy between additives is real and not just a buzzword, but they are very carefully selected by formulators).

As kschachn mentioned, the additive manufacturers have no idea what original additives they are top treating to make it suitable universally, and therefore, it is a complete shot in the dark with the odds very much stacked against it to be effective in any way.


Edited by MotoTribologist (10/16/17 09:06 AM)

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#4545006 - 10/16/17 10:40 AM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
MotoTribologist Offline


Registered: 02/03/16
Posts: 562
Loc: NJ, USA
I just happened to see this article today by coincidence. It has a brief mention about synergism and antagonism between additives:

TLT November 2017: The Chemistry and Function of Lubricant Additives

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#4545197 - 10/16/17 02:10 PM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1267
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Hey, I have 30 partial bottles of 30 different oils in my garage. Will it hurt anything to mix these together? smile

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#4545212 - 10/16/17 02:37 PM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: bigj_16]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9390
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Hey, I have 30 partial bottles of 30 different oils in my garage. Will it hurt anything to mix these together? smile

The point being that it is highly unlikely it will help anything however.

How is it grossly different than if you are on heart medication and you mix 1/4 of a pill from a Merck drug, 1/4 from an Abbot drug, 1/4 from a Bayer drug and 1/4 from Eli Lilly (assuming they all make heart drugs)? Would you expect that from your random mixture you would be better off than using one drug as prescribed?

The mixibility criteria for oils say that nothing bad such as clumping or other other catastrophic problems will occur, but they also don't say that anything good will happen either.
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#4545632 - 10/16/17 09:31 PM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: kschachn]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1267
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Hey, I have 30 partial bottles of 30 different oils in my garage. Will it hurt anything to mix these together? smile

The point being that it is highly unlikely it will help anything however.

How is it grossly different than if you are on heart medication and you mix 1/4 of a pill from a Merck drug, 1/4 from an Abbot drug, 1/4 from a Bayer drug and 1/4 from Eli Lilly (assuming they all make heart drugs)? Would you expect that from your random mixture you would be better off than using one drug as prescribed?

The mixibility criteria for oils say that nothing bad such as clumping or other other catastrophic problems will occur, but they also don't say that anything good will happen either.

You did see the smiley face, right? whistle

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#4545792 - 10/17/17 05:04 AM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39850
Loc: 'Stralia
For example, Moly disulfide is used as a catalyst in cracking hydrocarbons...it makes me wonder how overdosing with it would affect the oxidation life of the oil.

Yes, MODTC forms MoS2 in the tribofilm, and the MoS2 is an integral part of the wear protection, but it's tiny amounts, and mostly plated on surfaces....not sure how a teaspoon plus of powdered moly is going to behave.

If the miscibility standard is so vague, the oil must mix with 7 reference oils, be froxen, heated, and frozen again, without splitting or precipitates, no performance standard at all other than that, then additive manufacturers can't suggest that their additives are:
* always beneficial;
* mostly beneficial; or
* always without harm.

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#4547822 - 10/19/17 02:23 AM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
Marco620 Offline


Registered: 02/25/14
Posts: 2186
Loc: Deplorable Kansan,HK fan!
I run Archoil 9100 but at a lesser dosage. I leave the filter and refill and dont add more. Got 125000 miles almost with no ill effects. Going to Ceratec at half dosage soon.
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#4548467 - 10/19/17 04:18 PM Re: Oil additives destroy balance of motor oil? [Re: ZZman]
OhOMG Offline


Registered: 09/11/17
Posts: 74
Loc: On your screen
Lucas additive, the thick gooey one, smothers Anti-Foam additives in the motor oil, or at least in the motor oil they tested this with.

Other additives may not do that.

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