Recent Topics
Things Santa might say......
by ZZman. 12/16/18 08:24 AM
ULTRA-POWER 57082
by ET16. 12/16/18 06:56 AM
No collision totaled vehicle
by madRiver. 12/16/18 06:32 AM
Brightest backup light for my daughters car?
by BobsArmory. 12/16/18 06:26 AM
M1 0W20 EP Good To At Least 10K Miles ?
by ChrisD46. 12/16/18 03:29 AM
Gift for young Army Cadet
by Snagglefoot. 12/16/18 12:33 AM
Instacart Grocery Delivery
by dogememe. 12/16/18 12:26 AM
My brother bought this...
by miden851. 12/15/18 09:12 PM
Watch out for scammers
by Chris142. 12/15/18 08:45 PM
15K OCI R53 2006 Mini Cooper S 144k
by dx92beater. 12/15/18 08:32 PM
Beneficial clean fuel.injectors in Ultrasonic Cleaner
by JLawrence08648. 12/15/18 06:54 PM
Back to Basics III
by MolaKule. 12/15/18 05:30 PM
Castrol Edge 0W40 vs. 5W40...Liqui Moly?
by TiGeo. 12/15/18 04:56 PM
Newest Members
MikeMTL, AJ11, bandito, Spkrdctr, torchredone12
66691 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
91 registered members (-SyN-, 64bawagon, 72BBNova, 2003f7, AandPDan, 4WD, 7 invisible), 1,732 guests, and 32 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics295,142
Posts4,928,459
Members66,691
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi #4543034
10/14/17 09:12 AM
10/14/17 09:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,126
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline OP
motor_oil_madman  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,126
Houston, Texas
So I only weigh 120 and frequently can stand on a lug wrench and not budge the lug nut, but if I grab it with my hands and pull upwards on it I can pretty much loosen it with ease. I got to thinking, is it because the threads are slanted slightly, so it's creating a wedge in between the nut and the mating surface? So when you stand on it all downward force and friction make it harder to spin off?


2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543052
10/14/17 09:43 AM
10/14/17 09:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
HoosierJeeper Offline
HoosierJeeper  Offline
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 1,283
WI
I'm no engineer but I think I have better luck pushing down. It's all about which one gives you better leverage, so if you get more leverage pulling up, do that.


15 Jeep KL Limited V6: Formula Shell 5W20
07 LR3 SE V8: Maxlife 5W30
05 Jeep KJ Limited: PHM 5W30
96 Jeep XJ Country: STP HM 5W30 (winter)
Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543054
10/14/17 09:44 AM
10/14/17 09:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 266
MO
RhondaHonda Offline
RhondaHonda  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 266
MO
It means you can deadlift more than your body weight.

Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543064
10/14/17 09:52 AM
10/14/17 09:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,312
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,312
ON, Canada eh?
There is a reason you step on the Lug Wrench on the side of the road to crack the wheel nuts. Pushing with weight behind it is far more effective than pulling. Unless it's some weird contorted position.


'18 Dodge Grand Caravan GT - AMSOIL SS 5w20
'06 Santa Fe - 535,000km AMSOIL SS 0w30 / ATF
Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543065
10/14/17 09:53 AM
10/14/17 09:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 748
texas
danez_yoda Online content
danez_yoda  Online Content
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 748
texas
Its because the torque you generate depends on how far you pull away from the axis of rotation (lug nut). That's how cheater bars work. The same force applies further from the rotation point gives more torque.

The units for torque are ft-lbs or in-lbs. 1 lbs of force, 1 foot away from the rotation axis is 1 ft-lb of torque. move out 2 feet from the axis or rotation and apply the same 1 lb of force you get 2 ft-lbs. Stay at 1 ft from the rotation axis and apply 2 lb of force and you also get 2 ft-lbs.

When you pull you generally grab the end farthest away from the bolt. When you stand you tend to get more towards the middle of the bar to fit your feet.

That's also why a four-way wrench works better since you pull and push equal distances from the torque point so you double the torque.




Last edited by danez_yoda; 10/14/17 09:58 AM.
Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543089
10/14/17 10:10 AM
10/14/17 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,831
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,831
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Eat some cheezeburgers! Geez!


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543090
10/14/17 10:10 AM
10/14/17 10:10 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
In certain instances: it's because you, personally, can apply more force with your muscles by pulling than you're capable of exerting just by bearing part of your body's weight on it. I weigh 160 and find plenty of times where I can get further with stubborn bolts by leveraging against something than just relying on my weight x leverage of the tool to do it.


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543092
10/14/17 10:11 AM
10/14/17 10:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,789
NY, NY
NYEngineer Offline
NYEngineer  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,789
NY, NY
245 here

I can push or pull, makes little difference

Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543111
10/14/17 10:33 AM
10/14/17 10:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,405
VA
Rhymingmechanic Online content
Rhymingmechanic  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,405
VA
OP, my experience is pretty much the same at 160.

I think pulling up allows for more control than pushing down. The explanation above about where you hold the wrench probably has something to do with it. Also, pulling allows you to use your legs in addition to arms and back. I always try to use either a 4-way or a long torque wrench instead of the factory lug wrenches.

I have to say, I've never tried standing on a lug wrench. That seems like a sure way to ruin the nuts and wind up on the ground.

Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543130
10/14/17 10:54 AM
10/14/17 10:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,969
South Florida
bubbatime Offline
bubbatime  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,969
South Florida
You can probably lift 300-400 pounds using your muscles, which is obviously more than the 120 lbs you weigh.


17 Chrysler Pacifica Mobil 1 5W30
13 Yamaha XT250 Valv MC 10W40
10 Acura TSX 2.4 Maxlife Syn 5W30
06 GMC Sierra Nextgen 10W30


Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: bubbatime] #4543154
10/14/17 11:30 AM
10/14/17 11:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,575
ME
eljefino Online content
eljefino  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,575
ME
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
You can probably lift 300-400 pounds using your muscles, which is obviously more than the 120 lbs you weigh.


Right, if you were to bend over and lift cinder blocks you're lifting most of your body (torso up at least) as well as the cinder blocks.

Doing the lug wrench thing, you're probably lifting with your back, which will make you a cripple, but is done in life because it's effective.

Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543165
10/14/17 11:47 AM
10/14/17 11:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Merkava_4 Offline
Merkava_4  Offline
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17,501
Clovis, CA
Only a 120 pounds ? How is that even possible ?

Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: Merkava_4] #4543169
10/14/17 11:51 AM
10/14/17 11:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,972
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,972
OH
He's a landscaper, smokes and isn't that tall.

Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543179
10/14/17 12:06 PM
10/14/17 12:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,126
iowa
Traction Offline
Traction  Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,126
iowa
I remove, and install a lot of wheels. I Always pull up on the wrench to loosen, and push down to tighten.


Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Re: pulling up on a wrench gives more force than pushi [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4543187
10/14/17 12:16 PM
10/14/17 12:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 873
Central Coast California
RedOakRanch Offline
RedOakRanch  Offline
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 873
Central Coast California
Don't over think it, if you can do a pull up you can pull harder than you can push down.


1994 Ford Crown Vic 207k-Frankenbrew 0w20,30,40!
2005 Chevy 1500 Crewcab 4X4 180k-BC 0w30 $2/qt
2016 Outback 2.5 Limited 60k-shop brand?
Page 1 of 2 1 2

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™