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No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? #4540907
10/12/17 07:09 AM
10/12/17 07:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 437
Australia
Spetz Offline OP
Spetz  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 437
Australia
Hi guys,

I have a Mitsubishi 6A12 powered car.

Recently the power steering belt snapped and tool the alternator belt with it.

The weird thing though is that the battery light did not light up when this happened.
When I turn the key to IGN the battery light goes on, but once I start the engine the battery light goes off.

I thought it should remain on as there would be no charge?


2003 Mitsubishi Diamante 6G74 3.5L. 5 Speed auto. 155,000 miles. Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 at 6k OCI
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4540914
10/12/17 07:15 AM
10/12/17 07:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,348
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Online content
Chris142  Online Content
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 17,348
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Sposed to anyway.


02 Wrangler durablend 10w40
87 F250 traveler 15w40
04 Tahoe super-s 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor 15w40
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4540915
10/12/17 07:17 AM
10/12/17 07:17 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,510
Ontario, Canada
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,510
Ontario, Canada
Really strange. Maybe it only goes on if the excitement field in the alternator fails? When I was in Florida with my Journey a summer ago the alternator failed and not only did the battery light come on but it also started flashing the check engine light, dinging and it stored a code "Electrical Charging System Fault" , "Electrical Charging System Low Volts"

Last edited by StevieC; 10/12/17 07:18 AM.

'18 Highlander - AMSOIL SS 0w20 / ATF / Severe Gear
'06 Santa Fe - 535,000km AMSOIL SS 0w30 / ATF (R.I.P)
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4540919
10/12/17 07:20 AM
10/12/17 07:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,057
Warner Robins, GA
nwjones18 Offline
nwjones18  Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,057
Warner Robins, GA
I'm guessing if you'd driven it long enough for the battery to discharge some it would have come on.


1988 F-150. 4.9 I6 247k. 10w-40 Castrol Syn-blend ACDelco UPF2.
2005 Cadillac STS N* 108k. 5w-30 Castrol Magnatec ACDelco Classic PF61
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: nwjones18] #4540962
10/12/17 08:05 AM
10/12/17 08:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
I'm guessing if you'd driven it long enough for the battery to discharge some it would have come on.


Yes, perhaps your vehicle shows if the battery's voltage is good, not if it isn't being charged.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4540987
10/12/17 08:41 AM
10/12/17 08:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,862
Onondaga County
Miller88 Offline
Miller88  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,862
Onondaga County
Is it an internally regulated alternator?


18 Forester 2.5I 6M
00 Jeep Cherokee
01 Ford F-350 XL 4x4 5M
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Kuato] #4541067
10/12/17 10:20 AM
10/12/17 10:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,800
SD
zrxkawboy Offline
zrxkawboy  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,800
SD
Originally Posted By: Kuato
Originally Posted By: nwjones18
I'm guessing if you'd driven it long enough for the battery to discharge some it would have come on.


Yes, perhaps your vehicle shows if the battery's voltage is good, not if it isn't being charged.


That would be my guess also.


"Think of all the Ford owners who will someday want an automobile." John Dodge

Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4541077
10/12/17 10:36 AM
10/12/17 10:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,671
'murica
Ethan1 Offline
Ethan1  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,671
'murica
The warning light does not work the way everyone seems to assume. On an older car like this, the alternator itself powers the warning light when it fails internally. No belt = no power from the alternator = no power to the light.

Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4541184
10/12/17 01:18 PM
10/12/17 01:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,642
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,642
Southeast
some lights are now triggered by voltage. Observed that in an early 2000's Chryco LHS. Belt kept coming off. As long as the battery was charged, the light stayed off.


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Ethan1] #4541299
10/12/17 03:34 PM
10/12/17 03:34 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,201
Toronto, Canada
George7941 Offline
George7941  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,201
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
The warning light does not work the way everyone seems to assume. On an older car like this, the alternator itself powers the warning light when it fails internally. No belt = no power from the alternator = no power to the light.


Wrong! The OP stated that the lights powers up when the ignition is turned on.

On the older cars the alternator powers up one side of the bulb, the other side has ignition power.


2006 GMC Sierra 4.3l, NV3500,G80 , Mobil 1 5W30, Dexcool.
1987 BMW R80 - sold
2015 Honda CBR300R

Staying out of the right lane a lot.
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: George7941] #4541552
10/12/17 08:19 PM
10/12/17 08:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,671
'murica
Ethan1 Offline
Ethan1  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,671
'murica
Originally Posted By: George7941
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
The warning light does not work the way everyone seems to assume. On an older car like this, the alternator itself powers the warning light when it fails internally. No belt = no power from the alternator = no power to the light.


Wrong! The OP stated that the lights powers up when the ignition is turned on.

On the older cars the alternator powers up one side of the bulb, the other side has ignition power.


How are the two mutually exclusive? Why do you think that a self test is impossible for a bulb that is powered by the alternator? Integrated circuits are weird... it's been a wild ride, these last 50 years. shrug

Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4541561
10/12/17 08:29 PM
10/12/17 08:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,510
Ontario, Canada
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,510
Ontario, Canada
Speaking of a wild ride. GM had a vehicle that the battery light bulb if it was burn't out the alternator wouldn't charge the battery. It was a 1980's Buick something. Can't remember the exact model but I want to say Electra or something like that. The bulb was in the center of the dash above the radio area.

Last edited by StevieC; 10/12/17 08:31 PM.

'18 Highlander - AMSOIL SS 0w20 / ATF / Severe Gear
'06 Santa Fe - 535,000km AMSOIL SS 0w30 / ATF (R.I.P)
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: StevieC] #4541585
10/12/17 08:46 PM
10/12/17 08:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,038
Phoenix
dishdude Online content
dishdude  Online Content
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,038
Phoenix
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Speaking of a wild ride. GM had a vehicle that the battery light bulb if it was burn't out the alternator wouldn't charge the battery. It was a 1980's Buick something. Can't remember the exact model but I want to say Electra or something like that. The bulb was in the center of the dash above the radio area.


Yes! It completed the circuit that "excited" the voltage regulator.

I had a Neon that wouldn't turn the bulb on if the belt was off, voltage had to be below a certain level.


2018 Challenger SRT
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Spetz] #4541588
10/12/17 08:48 PM
10/12/17 08:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,510
Ontario, Canada
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,510
Ontario, Canada
If the bulb is burn't out and it's preventing it from charging you would never know until it's too late because it won't illuminate. Now that is stupid engineering. wink


'18 Highlander - AMSOIL SS 0w20 / ATF / Severe Gear
'06 Santa Fe - 535,000km AMSOIL SS 0w30 / ATF (R.I.P)
Re: No Alternator Belt - Battery symbol not on? [Re: Ethan1] #4541589
10/12/17 08:49 PM
10/12/17 08:49 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,201
Toronto, Canada
George7941 Offline
George7941  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,201
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: George7941
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
The warning light does not work the way everyone seems to assume. On an older car like this, the alternator itself powers the warning light when it fails internally. No belt = no power from the alternator = no power to the light.


Wrong! The OP stated that the lights powers up when the ignition is turned on.

On the older cars the alternator powers up one side of the bulb, the other side has ignition power.


How are the two mutually exclusive? Why do you think that a self test is impossible for a bulb that is powered by the alternator? Integrated circuits are weird... it's been a wild ride, these last 50 years. shrug


I will tell you why. Older cars had a very simple circuit for the warning light. One side of the bulb had ignition power, the other side was hooked up to the alternator such that it had roughly 12V when the alternator was charging. Thus when the alternator was charging, the bulb had equal voltages on both sides, hence 0V across it and therefore would go out.

I know of no car where the alternator powers the tell tale on.

Re StevieC's example, lots of older cars would not charge if the tell tale bulb burned out because the current through the bulb when the ignition was turned on and the bulb lit was the current for the initial excitation of the field windings. Some alternators retained enough residual magnetism in its field poles when the engine was not running to self-excite once the alternator started turning and would produce even with a burned out tell tale.


2006 GMC Sierra 4.3l, NV3500,G80 , Mobil 1 5W30, Dexcool.
1987 BMW R80 - sold
2015 Honda CBR300R

Staying out of the right lane a lot.
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