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Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? #4540297
10/11/17 02:25 PM
10/11/17 02:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,268
VA
Gebo Online content OP
Gebo  Online Content OP
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,268
VA
Is it too broad of a question to ask which auto air filters use synthetic media? I'm just wondering of synthetic air filter would do a better job filtering than a paper air filter. It seems synthetic media works great in oil filters but air and oil are not the same. I have used those filters where you add oil to the media and I won't do that again. I always end up over oiling and making a mess.


'98 LEX LS400 280K
'00 LEX GS300 195K
'02 4Runner 225K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'06 Toyota Highlander 145K
'09 Lex IS350 85K
'07 Lex GX470 58K

Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540303
10/11/17 02:29 PM
10/11/17 02:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,198
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,198
Midwest USA
Stick with OEM paper filters and you can't go wrong. Not only does over oiling make a mess, if your car has a Mass Air Flow sensor mounted in the intake snorkel the over oiled filter will coat the diodes of the MAF with micro mist of oil droplets. Over time, burn-off cycles (MAF burn-off at key-off) will carbonize the oil residue on the diodes and potentially throw off the accuracy of the MAF causing your car to run like [censored] until you pull out the MAF and hit it specifically with MAF cleaner:

http://www.crcindustries.com/products/mass-air-flow-sensor-cleaner-11-wt-oz-05110.html



'09 Subaru Forester ...................(QS HM 5W30)
'16 Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 .....(ENI i-Ride PG 10W60)
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540311
10/11/17 02:41 PM
10/11/17 02:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,268
VA
Gebo Online content OP
Gebo  Online Content OP
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,268
VA
I use the CRC cleaner for my MAF cleaning. That's exactly why I no longer oil my air filters.


'98 LEX LS400 280K
'00 LEX GS300 195K
'02 4Runner 225K
'05 Lex LS430 85K
'06 Toyota Highlander 145K
'09 Lex IS350 85K
'07 Lex GX470 58K

Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540313
10/11/17 02:42 PM
10/11/17 02:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,365
Ontario, Canada
StevieC Online content
StevieC  Online Content
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,365
Ontario, Canada
I have always used a Fram paper air filter on advise of my oil testing lab and always seen good results.


'18 Highlander - AMSOIL SS 0w20 / ATF / Severe Gear
'06 Santa Fe - 535,000km AMSOIL SS 0w30 / ATF (R.I.P)
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540323
10/11/17 02:51 PM
10/11/17 02:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,718
Hudson, NH
LeakySeals Offline
LeakySeals  Offline
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,718
Hudson, NH
Its a good question. Not sure how synthetic media would perform for air filtration.


06 Escalade 6.0L LQ9 AWD 165k M1 5w30
03 Maxima 3.5L POS 152k ST HM 10w30
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540353
10/11/17 03:28 PM
10/11/17 03:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 867
MA USA
andrewp1998 Offline
andrewp1998  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 867
MA USA
I wondered what the benefits are from going from a napa silver to a gold or platinum for air filtration? I just bought a hastings that going in this week


Last edited by andrewp1998; 10/11/17 03:28 PM.

2001 Honda civic HX vtecE- 5 spd,232k+
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540398
10/11/17 04:14 PM
10/11/17 04:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,978
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,978
MN
I'm up on oil filters, but not knowledgeable about engine air filters. (I try to buy Fram, but OEM air filters have been used too.)
I know you can get better (smaller particles) filtering at the same pressure drop & mass flow rates with synthetic fibers vs. paper fibers.
Recently I got a HEPA Cabin Air Filter that uses a 3-ply approach to filter better while retaining proper pressure drops at given mass flow rates.
Click on the "Explore Benefits" tab at https://www.boschautoparts.com/en/auto/filters/hepa-cabin-filters
and see their 3-ply construction.--------------------
Now, can the 3-ply concept or simply using all synthetic fibers translate to engine air filters too? I would think so.
After all, remember the diameters of the individual fibers are smaller on synthetic fibers compared to cellulose paper fibers. Thicker diameter individual fibers actually block air flow more, so engineers have to space them out sufficiently enough to maintain good delta-pressures, resulting in letting bigger particles through cellulose paper media. Notice the difference in diameters of synth vs. cellulose fibers at the same magnification:


Also, looks like Mann-Hummel is trying to introduce all-synthetic fiber air filters:
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-658-13255-2_73

If we could just find a Mann-Hummel MicroGrade N or similar:
"Another MANN+HUMMEL innovation is the completely synthetic filter medium Micrograde N. Its distinctive feature, in comparison with conventional cellulose media, is its far higher dirt absorption capacity and a vastly improved filtration performance, which makes it possible to lengthen its service life or to reduce installation space." -- https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/mh-jp/products/air-induction-systems/

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 10/11/17 04:27 PM.
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540511
10/11/17 06:44 PM
10/11/17 06:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Not sure of what is meant by "synthetic media" in air filtration; and I'm certainly not going to spend $289 to buy the ebook or $29 just to buy the "paper" https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-658-13255-2_73

However, nanofiber air filtration are 100% efficient on 3 micron particles, and have 98% efficiency at 2 microns; and they are used on the M1A1 tank: https://ultimatesyntheticoil.com/ea-nanofiber-air-filters/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdnueT5_jsE

No, I'm not an Amsoil dealer, but I use their EA nanofiber air filters, and I have UOA on K&N filters showing Silicon at 999 ppm going down to 26 ppm doing NOTHING different except changing air filtration. I wouldn't use K&N if they were given to me free; and the stock OEM is, well, the stock OEM. If you value your engine interior $5-7, then use OEM.

I have a good friend who owns a Motorcycle shop, on the wall he has a 2X3' poster of a full face Bell Racing Helmet...The caption says "If you have a $10 head, wear a $10 helmet."

I value the interior of my engine enough to do UOA and to use a nanofiber air filter. Do whatever lets you sleep at night.



2003 Lesabre
2004 Lesabre
2004 Impala
If ur NOT doing UOA then you're throwing away good oil or your engine is already damaged. Choose.
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Ihatetochangeoil] #4540540
10/11/17 07:12 PM
10/11/17 07:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,978
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,978
MN
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Not sure of what is meant by "synthetic media" in air filtration;
Simply means "not paper cellulose media". Thats what synthetic means. Synthetic could be polymer, resin, or glass fibers.
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
No, I'm not an Amsoil dealer, but I use their EA nanofiber air filters,
All I see Amsoil offer is air filters for old street rods and Donaldson Blue's for HD trucks that use EA nano-fiber. Anything for most passenger cars?

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/air/

Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540553
10/11/17 07:24 PM
10/11/17 07:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,110
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,110
Ontario, Canada
AMSOIL discontinued the EA air filters. They used a Donaldson synthetic fibre media.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: oil_film_movies] #4540577
10/11/17 07:46 PM
10/11/17 07:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Ihatetochangeoil Offline
Ihatetochangeoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 588
On the road Midwest
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Not sure of what is meant by "synthetic media" in air filtration;
Simply means "not paper cellulose media". Thats what synthetic means. Synthetic could be polymer, resin, or glass fibers.
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
No, I'm not an Amsoil dealer, but I use their EA nanofiber air filters,
All I see Amsoil offer is air filters for old street rods and Donaldson Blue's for HD trucks that use EA nano-fiber. Anything for most passenger cars?

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/air/


Not that I know of. I use an EA 4090 (4" X 9" cone). Forgot about that; I USED to purchase their OEM replacement filters; and that's where I got the Si drop on UOA. To the best of my knowledge, I concur, they quit making them for OEM replacements unless someone knows differently. Pablo?



2003 Lesabre
2004 Lesabre
2004 Impala
If ur NOT doing UOA then you're throwing away good oil or your engine is already damaged. Choose.
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540639
10/11/17 08:31 PM
10/11/17 08:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,978
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,978
MN
OK, so Amsoil Donaldson Blue air filters are not available for most vehicles. Trucks yes, light duty vehicles, no.

FWIW, Purolator makes a "multi-fiber" air filter for light duty cars and pickup trucks. PurolatorONE. I assume their air filters don't rip/tear in service like their awful oil filters. I guess multi-fiber means a blend of cellulose or cotton fibers with polymer or glass fibers (???).

Fram offers the Extra Gaurd and the Tough Gaurd lines. I can't tell the difference between those. I guess the TG holds more dirt.

I'm not seeing any all-synthetic fiber air filters, like the big truck Donaldson Blues. Wish I could have that media.

Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540726
10/11/17 09:51 PM
10/11/17 09:51 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,232
WA (USA)
Y_K Offline
Y_K  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,232
WA (USA)
The most recent Million Mile Tundra went over a million miles on stock everything...


"This forum talking about 4wd systems is like when other forums talk about oil." © 2018 FlyPenFly
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: oil_film_movies] #4540807
10/12/17 12:30 AM
10/12/17 12:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,110
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,110
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
OK, so Amsoil Donaldson Blue air filters are not available for most vehicles. Trucks yes, light duty vehicles, no.

FWIW, Purolator makes a "multi-fiber" air filter for light duty cars and pickup trucks. PurolatorONE. I assume their air filters don't rip/tear in service like their awful oil filters. I guess multi-fiber means a blend of cellulose or cotton fibers with polymer or glass fibers (???).

Fram offers the Extra Gaurd and the Tough Gaurd lines. I can't tell the difference between those. I guess the TG holds more dirt.

I'm not seeing any all-synthetic fiber air filters, like the big truck Donaldson Blues. Wish I could have that media.


Yeah, AMSOIL stopped making them because they just weren't selling. Sucked, because it was pretty unique to have that media in a traditional car filter application frown


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Do Air Filters Use Synthetic Media/Does It Matter? [Re: Gebo] #4540816
10/12/17 01:05 AM
10/12/17 01:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 654
New Jersey
THafeez Offline
THafeez  Offline
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 654
New Jersey
I use a dry flow air filter. Does the job and keeps Si low. It says to wash with water and soap every 10,000 miles, but I am sure it can go much longer than that. Clean your throttle body and MAF sensor yearly with the proper cleaners.


2004 Toyota Solara SE 2.4 2AZFE
182,000 miles
Castrol Magnatec Semi-Syn 5W30
Royal Purple 20-400 oversize 2nd run
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