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Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s #4538856
10/10/17 09:05 AM
10/10/17 09:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Offline OP
john_pifer  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Well, I was thinking about a lightweight .308 carbine, as Iíd mentioned in the other thread, but I got to thinking...I already have a .30-cal rifle (Mini-30), and I could have a pretty nice AR-15 (I donít have a 5.56 rifle at all) with a good optic for what a DPMS or S&W AR-10 would cost for just the rifle alone.

I do want a decent base rifle that will be a good platform for upgrades. Iíve already pretty much accepted the fact that, with something like a Smith & Wesson M&P 15, Iím going to want to replace the grip, handguard, maybe the stock, probably the trigger, etc.

The M&P 15 does seem like a lot for the $$$, which I like. I also like the fact that it is a Smith & Wesson. I feel like, being a good-sized, well-known company, I wouldnít have to worry about them standing behind the rifle if I ever had any problems. There are also a ton of them out there...I think I read somewhere that it was the most-bought centerfire in America last year.

Also, I believe everything on it is non-proprietary (something else I worried a little bit about with an AR-10...since they have never been adopted as a service rifle, they have a lot of proprietary parts).

Anyway, Iíd still like to have a .308 carbine eventually, but I think Iím leaning more towards an AR-15 right now, since I donít have one.

Another model I hear a lot about is the Colt 6920. It is $200-250 more than the S&W. Do you really get more features & quality for the extra dough, or are you just paying for the Colt name?

Letís keep the politics out of this, so it doesnít get shut down.


16 WRX - PPPP
07 Tacoma V6 - M1 EP 5W-30, Fram Ultra, 10K OCIs, 198K
07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300
07 Yamaha YZ-250, Klotz, Rotella

Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: john_pifer] #4538881
10/10/17 09:33 AM
10/10/17 09:33 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
This place has absolutely amazing deals from time to time:

https://www.cdnnsports.com/firearms.html


Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Iím going to want to replace the grip, hand-guard, maybe the stock, probably the trigger, etc.
...... I wouldnít have to worry about them standing behind the rifle if I ever had any problems.


Instead of having lots of spare parts left over that nobody wants, you should just BUILD what you want from the beginning. These are NOT complicated or complex machines.

Problems? With an AR-15? I haven't heard of any. The platform is a DOG EAT DOG industry - no one can afford to build problematic stuff, or the internet will know about it in hours.

Here is a NAME BRAND, LIFETIME warranty, nicely featured AR-15 for $439
https://www.cdnnsports.com/delton-ar15-echo-316-556-nato-b5-system.html#.WdzZ1ltSxdg


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: john_pifer] #4538888
10/10/17 09:38 AM
10/10/17 09:38 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,333
Winchester, Indiana
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,333
Winchester, Indiana
My stepson had the Colt with a Nikon Monarch 3 2.5-10x42 BDC that would never make groups tighter than 2.5"@100 yards even from a sled, regardless who was shooting. He sold that rifle and bought a Savage 22-250 and used that same scope, and can make 1" 5 shot groups at 150 yards. I like the aftermarket for AR15s, but if I was looking for a SHTF rifle, I'd get an AK built around the Sharps Bros. milled receiver; there have been a couple reviews where this receiver takes the AK to MOA accuracy at 100 yards, and maintains the legendary reliability of the AK, with the bonus of cheap, accurate, steel-cased ammo.

If I was going to buy an AR it would either be .308 or .458 SOCOM since I like 1-shot kills regardless of the target.

Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: Linctex] #4538907
10/10/17 09:54 AM
10/10/17 09:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Here is a NAME BRAND, LIFETIME warranty, nicely featured AR-15 for $439
https://www.cdnnsports.com/delton-ar15-echo-316-556-nato-b5-system.html#.WdzZ1ltSxdg


I believe that same rifle was $399.99 pre Las Vegas.

Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: john_pifer] #4538910
10/10/17 09:56 AM
10/10/17 09:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,153
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,153
USA
I've owned and built ARs ranging from low spec to top spec and frankly what it always boils down to me is the barrel. The platform is like legos and parts just fit together with relative ease and predictability. Stocks, grips, rails, optics and sights are all modular and you can swap things around to your heart's content.

But if you're an accuracy snob, then buy or build one with a good barrel. I don't run my guns hard so I go with stainless, 1:7 or 1:8 twist, Wylde chamber and a heavy profile. If you care about the gas impulse then go with a 18 or 20" barrel with a rifle length gas system, and a rifle length buffer with standard spring and buffer weight. She'll shoot soft and eject brass reliably to around 4 o clock.

I've built ARs out of clearance discount blem parts, but put on a good barrel, and still got sub MOA performance out of a gun that cosmetically looks no different than a $1500 Daniel Defense rifle.

Part of this is the forging. There are only so many producers in the industry who forge the upper and lower receivers. Mil spec is mil spec is mil spec!


*Edit -- As far as buying one off the shelf.. you can't go wrong with an M&P15 or a Savage MSR.. but if you're an accuracy snob then just a warning that they don't put top shelf barrels on mass production rifles.

Last edited by Reddy45; 10/10/17 10:04 AM.
Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: john_pifer] #4538918
10/10/17 10:05 AM
10/10/17 10:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: john_pifer
Another model I hear a lot about is the Colt 6920. It is $200-250 more than the S&W. Do you really get more features & quality for the extra dough, or are you just paying for the Colt name?


I have both the 6920, and the 6940 Monolith. To be honest, I don't see any better performance from the 6920, than I do from any of my other AR-15's from Bushmaster, DPMS, or Rock River Arms. All have run 100% for me. And it's pretty hard to improve on that. I can see the added price on the 6940 due to the one piece Monolithic upper costing more to produce.

But the 6920 is no different from any other Delta Ring, direct impingement AR-15 currently being manufactured out there. As far as arguing the quality of parts. I've mentioned in other threads, I've seem CMT bolts in Stag Arms guns, as well as Colt's. So it all comes back to a relatively few parts manufacturers supplying the entire AR-15 industry. I think if the Colt brand had any advantage in the marketplace, it would be in both resale ease and value. Many people just feel more comfortable about buying them over other brands.





Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: john_pifer] #4538927
10/10/17 10:14 AM
10/10/17 10:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,827
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,827
Idaho
There is a difference in the quality of metals used in the bolts and barrels which could be important depending on the use of the rifle[Machine gun vs bolt action steel alloy] Most of the upper and lower forgings as well as bolt assemblies are made from a hand full of companies. Why not spend extra now and build one ! Why buy parts you will be changing out.


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf
Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: CT8] #4538938
10/10/17 10:25 AM
10/10/17 10:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: CT8
.....Why buy parts you will be changing out.


While I, like many shooters, carry a sufficient amount of spare parts for my AR's. Including complete replacement bolt carrier groups. In owning and shooting over a dozen AR-15, I have never been forced to change out a part from breakage. In thousands of rounds of factory ammunition, as well as handloads. I think all of this talk about replacing parts on AR-15 rifles is way overblown. Think about it. There is no other weapon that people seem to carry more parts for than the AR-15 platform.

Granted most of them can be replaced in minutes, without any special tools, right at the shooting bench. So why not carry extra firing pins, extractors, ect.? But that in itself doesn't mean they are any more prone to breakage than any other rifle. I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of AR-15 owners and shooters have never replaced anything on their rifles, due to parts failure or breakage.

Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: billt460] #4538944
10/10/17 10:31 AM
10/10/17 10:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,153
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,153
USA
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: CT8
.....Why buy parts you will be changing out.


While I, like many shooters, carry a sufficient amount of spare parts for my AR's. Including complete replacement bolt carrier groups. In owning and shooting over a dozen AR-15, I have never been forced to change out a part from breakage. In thousands of rounds of factory ammunition, as well as handloads. I think all of this talk about replacing parts on AR-15 rifles is way overblown. Think about it. There is no other weapon that people seem to carry more parts for than the AR-15 platform.

Granted most of them can be replaced in minutes, without any special tools, right at the shooting bench. So why not carry extra firing pins, extractors, ect.? But that in itself doesn't mean they are any more prone to breakage than any other rifle. I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of AR-15 owners and shooters have never replaced anything on their rifles, due to parts failure or breakage.


Ditto. I remember in the early days of the AR boom when everyone was buying the little spare parts kits that store inside the pistol grip. I wonder how many of those were eventually ditched to the parts bin or the owners forgot the kit is still inside the grip.

Back when ammo was cheap, I was in the habit of breaking in each new AR build by lubing it up really well and then shooting 1000 rounds through it before cleaning. Never had any breakages or failures. And on every rifle I did this on, the end result was a glass-like action because all that lube and carbon ends up polishing the internals.

Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: billt460] #4539040
10/10/17 12:11 PM
10/10/17 12:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Here is a NAME BRAND, LIFETIME warranty, nicely featured AR-15 for $439
https://www.cdnnsports.com/delton-ar15-echo-316-556-nato-b5-system.html#.WdzZ1ltSxdg


I believe that same rifle was $399.99 pre Las Vegas.


Evidently it still is with a standard forearm:

https://www.cdnnsports.com/delton-ar15-echo-316-556-nato.html#.Wdz-yLde6s0

Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: billt460] #4539070
10/10/17 12:32 PM
10/10/17 12:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Here is a NAME BRAND, LIFETIME warranty, nicely featured AR-15 for $439
https://www.cdnnsports.com/delton-ar15-echo-316-556-nato-b5-system.html#.WdzZ1ltSxdg


I believe that same rifle was $399.99 pre Las Vegas.


I noticed later it still is $399 - minus all "B5 features"... but still!


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: billt460] #4539076
10/10/17 12:36 PM
10/10/17 12:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: billt460
In owning and shooting over a dozen AR-15, I have never been forced to change out a part from breakage. In thousands of rounds of factory ammunition, as well as handloads. I think all of this talk about replacing parts on AR-15 rifles is way overblown......I'm willing to bet that 90% or more of AR-15 owners and shooters have never replaced anything on their rifles, due to parts failure or breakage.


CORRECT.

Only professionals (mercenaries?) that shoot 100,000 rounds per year are the only ones breaking ANYTHING.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: john_pifer] #4539097
10/10/17 12:57 PM
10/10/17 12:57 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 389
AZ
Killer223 Offline
Killer223  Offline
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 389
AZ
i have several 100's of thousands of rounds down my bushamster's and not a single issue. clean em, oil em, load em, shoot am.
that simple.


08 6.7 cummins G56
04 5.9 cummins
11 ranger 4.0
16 KTM 250 XC
Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: john_pifer] #4539107
10/10/17 01:15 PM
10/10/17 01:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,085
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,085
New Jersey
Buy a Colt 6920 and be done with it!

Re: Entry-Level to Mid-Range AR-15s [Re: Killer223] #4539122
10/10/17 01:31 PM
10/10/17 01:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,153
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,153
USA
Originally Posted By: Killer223
i have several 100's of thousands of rounds down my bushamster's and not a single issue. clean em, oil em, load em, shoot am.
that simple.


That's quite a claim. Your barrel would be burned out by now if you had that many rounds through it..

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