75W-85 vs 75W-90 for MTF?
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Originally Posted By: glxpassat
Valvoline recommends their Synchromesh MTF for many GL-4 75W-90 applications and it's around $8 at O'reilly - link.
Hmm, looked good at first, but I see it must be thin. Looking down the application chart in that link (very helpful), they also recommend it in some ATF manual transmission applications, and GM and Chrysler applications that call for ATF-thickness fluid. I'm trying to get real 75w-90 - something like ~15cSt @ 100C; I think that this would have to be much, much thinner, just ike Pennzoil Snycromesh. I cannot find a pds for it, oddly. I see they used to sell a "Valvoline Professional Series MTF" and that was indeed the right viscosity. This seems different.
I checked WM, but the only marine gear oils I found were all GL-5, unfortunately.
Based on how much chatter I find on forums and past threads here, there's clearly a market for some refiner to put a real MT 75w-90 GL-4 on store shelves vs. everyone ordering Redline at $20/qt + shipping...
Valvoline recommends their Synchromesh MTF for many GL-4 75W-90 applications and it's around $8 at O'reilly - link.
Hmm, looked good at first, but I see it must be thin. Looking down the application chart in that link (very helpful), they also recommend it in some ATF manual transmission applications, and GM and Chrysler applications that call for ATF-thickness fluid. I'm trying to get real 75w-90 - something like ~15cSt @ 100C; I think that this would have to be much, much thinner, just ike Pennzoil Snycromesh. I cannot find a pds for it, oddly. I see they used to sell a "Valvoline Professional Series MTF" and that was indeed the right viscosity. This seems different.
I checked WM, but the only marine gear oils I found were all GL-5, unfortunately.
Based on how much chatter I find on forums and past threads here, there's clearly a market for some refiner to put a real MT 75w-90 GL-4 on store shelves vs. everyone ordering Redline at $20/qt + shipping...
My take, which is probably wrong, is that today the base oils are so good that it no longer requires a 90w oil to achieve the GL-4 rating. When GL-4 was blended with group 1 many years ago, 90w was probably needed. Back then a 75w-90 would shear down faster than today. I may try to call Valvoline today and inquire.
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I haven't found a GL5 that WASN'T yellow metal friendly with regular 30k intervals in a normal environment.
That attribute of GL5 is real and can destroy transmissions even in short period of time. Different transmissions have varying amount of those metals, but the use of GL-5 will cause wear regardless.
There is a reason the vehicle manufacturer recommend GL-4 for manual transmissions, which most do. If you want your vehicle to last 200k, put the right fluid in. You're playing the lottery when you use GL-5; Odds are against you that the GL-5 will cause premature failure-- Often much sooner than you'd think.
Just relaying my experience with GL-5 gear oils and I agree that if GL-4 is specified, it is wise to use it. I drove our 1994 Nissan Altima SE on Mobil 1 75W-90 LS (GL-5) after ~20K miles until 200K miles when it was totaled. Mobil 1 GL-5 used every 20 to 25K miles. I drove our 1998 BMW Z3 2.8 on Mobil 1 75-90 in the tranny for 30 to 35K miles. No issues, however switched to Pentosin MTF2 75W-80 GL-4 on the Z3 a few years ago. Also use this on our 328Ci. Running GL-5 non-synthetic in the Brat (front and back). However, the Brat specifies GL-5.
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I haven't found a GL5 that WASN'T yellow metal friendly with regular 30k intervals in a normal environment.
That attribute of GL5 is real and can destroy transmissions even in short period of time. Different transmissions have varying amount of those metals, but the use of GL-5 will cause wear regardless.
There is a reason the vehicle manufacturer recommend GL-4 for manual transmissions, which most do. If you want your vehicle to last 200k, put the right fluid in. You're playing the lottery when you use GL-5; Odds are against you that the GL-5 will cause premature failure-- Often much sooner than you'd think.
Just relaying my experience with GL-5 gear oils and I agree that if GL-4 is specified, it is wise to use it. I drove our 1994 Nissan Altima SE on Mobil 1 75W-90 LS (GL-5) after ~20K miles until 200K miles when it was totaled. Mobil 1 GL-5 used every 20 to 25K miles. I drove our 1998 BMW Z3 2.8 on Mobil 1 75-90 in the tranny for 30 to 35K miles. No issues, however switched to Pentosin MTF2 75W-80 GL-4 on the Z3 a few years ago. Also use this on our 328Ci. Running GL-5 non-synthetic in the Brat (front and back). However, the Brat specifies GL-5.
Originally Posted By: aba4430
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I haven't found a GL5 that WASN'T yellow metal friendly with regular 30k intervals in a normal environment.
That attribute of GL5 is real and can destroy transmissions even in short period of time. Different transmissions have varying amount of those metals, but the use of GL-5 will cause wear regardless.
There is a reason the vehicle manufacturer recommend GL-4 for manual transmissions, which most do. If you want your vehicle to last 200k, put the right fluid in. You're playing the lottery when you use GL-5; Odds are against you that the GL-5 will cause premature failure-- Often much sooner than you'd think.
Just relaying my experience with GL-5 gear oils and I agree that if GL-4 is specified, it is wise to use it. I drove our 1994 Nissan Altima SE on Mobil 1 75W-90 LS (GL-5) after ~20K miles until 200K miles when it was totaled. Mobil 1 GL-5 used every 20 to 25K miles.
How would a GL5 totaled this transmisson, when a GL4 supposedly won't ?
Not disputing your experience though.
Care to share history of oil change and service on this manual trans?
Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted By: unDummy
I haven't found a GL5 that WASN'T yellow metal friendly with regular 30k intervals in a normal environment.
That attribute of GL5 is real and can destroy transmissions even in short period of time. Different transmissions have varying amount of those metals, but the use of GL-5 will cause wear regardless.
There is a reason the vehicle manufacturer recommend GL-4 for manual transmissions, which most do. If you want your vehicle to last 200k, put the right fluid in. You're playing the lottery when you use GL-5; Odds are against you that the GL-5 will cause premature failure-- Often much sooner than you'd think.
Just relaying my experience with GL-5 gear oils and I agree that if GL-4 is specified, it is wise to use it. I drove our 1994 Nissan Altima SE on Mobil 1 75W-90 LS (GL-5) after ~20K miles until 200K miles when it was totaled. Mobil 1 GL-5 used every 20 to 25K miles.
How would a GL5 totaled this transmisson, when a GL4 supposedly won't ?
Not disputing your experience though.
Care to share history of oil change and service on this manual trans?
Read this excellent post from Richard Widman, a petroleum distributor in Bolivia. Great stuff.
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
Now, you may not care what happens to your car in 10 years. And it may take that long for the sulphur to do its dirty work. But I have problematic Getrag transmissions I've had for 20 years, and plan on keeping another 30. So I pay attention to this.
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
Now, you may not care what happens to your car in 10 years. And it may take that long for the sulphur to do its dirty work. But I have problematic Getrag transmissions I've had for 20 years, and plan on keeping another 30. So I pay attention to this.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: glxpassat
My take, which is probably wrong, is that today the base oils are so good that it no longer requires a 90w oil to achieve the GL-4 rating. When GL-4 was blended with group 1 many years ago, 90w was probably needed. Back then a 75w-90 would shear down faster than today. I may try to call Valvoline today and inquire.
The rating is dependent on the additive chemistry.
GL-5 gear lubes contain Extreme Pressure (EP) additives for highly-loaded, hypoid differentials, whereas GL-4 gear lubes for manual transmissions contain Anti-Wear (AW) additives.
The type and viscosity of the base oils determine the viscosity target.
Synchro assemblies can be made of brass or of Composite materials.
My take, which is probably wrong, is that today the base oils are so good that it no longer requires a 90w oil to achieve the GL-4 rating. When GL-4 was blended with group 1 many years ago, 90w was probably needed. Back then a 75w-90 would shear down faster than today. I may try to call Valvoline today and inquire.
The rating is dependent on the additive chemistry.
GL-5 gear lubes contain Extreme Pressure (EP) additives for highly-loaded, hypoid differentials, whereas GL-4 gear lubes for manual transmissions contain Anti-Wear (AW) additives.
The type and viscosity of the base oils determine the viscosity target.
Synchro assemblies can be made of brass or of Composite materials.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Or
Read this excellent post from Richard Widman, a petroleum distributor in Bolivia. Great stuff.
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
Now, you may not care what happens to your car in 10 years. And it may take that long for the sulphur to do its dirty work. But I have problematic Getrag transmissions I've had for 20 years, and plan on keeping another 30. So I pay attention to this.
In relation to Aba's claim on his 1994 Nissan Altima SE , care to substantiate how this pdf file explains :
Quote:
How would a GL5 totaled this transmisson, when a GL4 supposedly won't ?
Thank you for the pdf file of Widman's, btw.
Read this excellent post from Richard Widman, a petroleum distributor in Bolivia. Great stuff.
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf
Now, you may not care what happens to your car in 10 years. And it may take that long for the sulphur to do its dirty work. But I have problematic Getrag transmissions I've had for 20 years, and plan on keeping another 30. So I pay attention to this.
In relation to Aba's claim on his 1994 Nissan Altima SE , care to substantiate how this pdf file explains :
Quote:
How would a GL5 totaled this transmisson, when a GL4 supposedly won't ?
Thank you for the pdf file of Widman's, btw.
MolaKule
Staff member
See:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...TF_#Post4542232
and
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4542195/Re:_Synchromesh_Manual_Transmi#Post4542195
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthr...TF_#Post4542232
and
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4542195/Re:_Synchromesh_Manual_Transmi#Post4542195
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