Redline updated SDS 90% PAO

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I know SDS do not show everything in oil composition; but it seems like Redline motor oils are made up primarily pao Basestocks.
https://w3apps.phillips66.com/NetMSDS/ViewPDF.aspx?fileName=828863&Language=EN&IssueDate=9%2f19%2f2017&SubFormat=USDS
 
I was using Redline in the Journey when it was first new because I was using up some in my stash before going back to Amsoil and I wasn't getting good UOA's from it in that engine. I thought it was mainly POE. Guess it's not.
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Whatever the formula it is it didn't agree with the conditions my engine gave it. Besides the cost went up compared to Amsoil for me so that was an automatic cross off the list. Well that and I can only get the narrow ended bottles and not the gallon size which is a pain for dumping waste oil back in the containers.
 
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I,too thought it was an ester based oil. Redline didn't pull an "RP" when they got bought out and cheapen their formula did they? Seems every time an indie company goes corporate the formula gets cheapened out (I'm referring to all products,not just oil).
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
I can't speak to many years ago, but I had thought that it was a primarily PAO base, with significant enough ester content to market it with respect to that aspect.


That was my impression as well.
 
Isn't it... not possible/desirable to make an engine oil primarily with esters? AFAIK an oil like that would be terrible when cold, need very short OCIs, etc.

Rumors and speculation that Red Line was primarily PAO are years old. I never knew (nor would I have imagined) it'd be 90%, but I'm not hugely surprised.

Something to remember: even if the ester content is 10% or less, that doesn't mean esters aren't the party piece in the formulation. Elemental additives account for MUCH less of the formulation than that, and they're pretty important!
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Isn't it... not possible/desirable to make an engine oil primarily with esters? AFAIK an oil like that would be terrible when cold, need very short OCIs, etc.

Rumors and speculation that Red Line was primarily PAO are years old. I never knew (nor would I have imagined) it'd be 90%, but I'm not hugely surprised.

Something to remember: even if the ester content is 10% or less, that doesn't mean esters aren't the party piece in the formulation. Elemental additives account for MUCH less of the formulation than that, and they're pretty important!


+1 to all of this.
 
The link isn't working for me, but I just want to point out that the percentages reflected on Safety Data Sheets are usually not reflective of exact amounts mixed into the finished product. Oil companies claim that their formulations are trade secrets, and according to OSHA the percentages just have to be ranges.

"The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
A trade secret claim is made,
There is batch-to-batch variation, or
The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.
Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed"

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html
 
Originally Posted By: NickT29
The link isn't working for me, but I just want to point out that the percentages reflected on Safety Data Sheets are usually not reflective of exact amounts mixed into the finished product. Oil companies claim that their formulations are trade secrets, and according to OSHA the percentages just have to be ranges.

"The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
A trade secret claim is made,
There is batch-to-batch variation, or
The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.
Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed"

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html



Exactly.

Also notice what else is missing in the MSDS:

Redline uses anywhere from 120 ppm to 600 of moly (MoDTC) in their formulations but no mention is made of MoDTC's.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: NickT29
The link isn't working for me, but I just want to point out that the percentages reflected on Safety Data Sheets are usually not reflective of exact amounts mixed into the finished product. Oil companies claim that their formulations are trade secrets, and according to OSHA the percentages just have to be ranges.

"The concentration (exact percentages) of each ingredient must be specified except concentration ranges may be used in the following situations:
A trade secret claim is made,
There is batch-to-batch variation, or
The SDS is used for a group of substantially similar mixtures.
Chemicals where a trade secret is claimed"

https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3514.html



Exactly.

Also notice what else is missing in the MSDS:

Redline uses anywhere from 120 ppm to 600 of moly (MoDTC) in their formulations but no mention is made of MoDTC's.


In that case, I’m unsure if Moly needs to be listed at all. As I assume it isn’t enough of a hazard to human health considering the total amount in a given volume of oil to be required to be on SDS sheets. However, when taking a look at another product like Mobil 1 High Mileage, you’ll see two items listed, PAO, and a type of zinc that is listed as a low percentage number but must be toxic enough in a given volume to need to be listed.
 
I don't think I've seen a MSDS or SDS that listed the additives. Calciums, phosphorus, moly, boron etc. It probably goes back to the proprietary formula the company does not wish to reveal.
 
This is all news to me. I always thought Redlines claim to fame was its status as a class V oil. Which in turn I thought meant a "primarily" ester based oil. I Also got the impression it was generally held in higher regard than amsoil when used in racing / high performance / high rpm / high heat applications. Who acquired them ? I can't remember. Did the formulation change post acquisition?
 
This is nothing new, it's been stated here that Redline's main line of oils is and always has been PAO for like a decade. The POE is reserved for their ultra-expensive racing oils, but we have some shill fanbois that will argue even this...
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
This is nothing new, it's been stated here that Redline's main line of oils is and always has been PAO for like a decade. The POE is reserved for their ultra-expensive racing oils, but we have some shill fanbois that will argue even this...


This. I have, through the years, posted Redline is 50-90% PAO and people accused me of lying, making it up, hyping Amsoil (ok yes), or just being generally nuts (true). Some of the posts in this thread also make the point. Not really feasible and what $20-30 qt?

Lastly, so what? Use good oil. Don't stress about the component parts.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
This is nothing new, it's been stated here that Redline's main line of oils is and always has been PAO for like a decade. The POE is reserved for their ultra-expensive racing oils, but we have some shill fanbois that will argue even this...


This. I have, through the years, posted Redline is 50-90% PAO and people accused me of lying, making it up, hyping Amsoil (ok yes), or just being generally nuts (true). Some of the posts in this thread also make the point. Not really feasible and what $20-30 qt?

Lastly, so what? Use good oil. Don't stress about the component parts.


I think it is more of a revelation for some that legitimately thought it was majority POE. If other blenders like AMSOIL use POE in their formulas with a majority PAO base then what's oft touted about Redline being "different" makes it really not the case.
 
Irony: the companies that tout special formulations and unique innovations tend not to have the resources to actually do them.

The big blenders are the ones that can make their own basestocks and additive packages more-or-less at will. For the most part, the smaller ones are usually just throwing together off-the-shelf stuff. Of course, they might be doing it in a way that's less constrained by third-party specs, cost, etc. But at the end of the day, it's not some esoteric space juice; it's mainly just a different set of choices from the more mainstream products, within some industry-standard guidelines. Straying too far from those guidelines would require testing that they just don't have the resources for.

That's the impression I get, anyway. Happy to be corrected by someone better informed.
 
Originally Posted By: ZZman
Where is Pao listed?


1-Dodecene, Homopolymer, Hydrogenated CAS# 151006-63-2
1-Dodecene, Trimer, Hydrogenated CAS# 151006-62-1
 
Redline does indicate there are POE's included in the Basestock under Section 12 in the paragraph:
Persistence and Degradability: Polyalphaolefins (synthesized hydrocarbons) & polyalkylene glycol synthetic base oils are not considered to be readily biodegradable but may be inherently biodegradable. They are expected to completely biodegrade over extended periods of time. Most synthetic polyol esters are considered readily biodegradable and are expected to completely biodegrade over extended periods of time.
 
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