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Cheaper, more discounts, easier to find, more OEM approvals.
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Pick one and why? Mobil 0W40 vs Castrol 0W40
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Pennzoil 0w40. Because runs quieter in my engines than Mobil 1 0w40, and does not make my engines sluggish like Castrol Edge 0w40.
Castrol 0w 40 in a class by itself . Not much shear over 10k OC No oil pressure loss .On top of that its mostly PAO . My 2 cents
Originally Posted By: exShuttlemech
" now with the doubling in oil film strength with Castrol EDGE, our strongest ever oil."
Means that Castrol apparently thinks that film strength is of some importance.
They may, but that's not what Rat's measuring. Besides, just about every oil he has tested is tied with every other oil he's tested. His ranking is simply the baloney that you get when you don't know how to do a statistical analysis, or, worse, know how to do it yet choose not to.
" now with the doubling in oil film strength with Castrol EDGE, our strongest ever oil."
Means that Castrol apparently thinks that film strength is of some importance.
They may, but that's not what Rat's measuring. Besides, just about every oil he has tested is tied with every other oil he's tested. His ranking is simply the baloney that you get when you don't know how to do a statistical analysis, or, worse, know how to do it yet choose not to.
4WD
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If “film strength” was empirical data … Royal Purple would be the main attraction here !
Are we talking shear rate?
Are we talking shear rate?
I think M1 0w40 built it's reputation on a great base oil. Got amazing reviews then they switched out their formula to something more economical and easier to discount all the time. They didn't discount M1 0w40 during it's first release and people are buying it even more now because they think it's the same stuff when it's not. Hence why it's lost some certs and doesn't do as well it used to in UOA.
This is a pretty nasty but not uncommon sales and marketing practice when you're selling a commodity. Build a great premium expensive early release product then when it's built a reputation, cheapen production and quality then make a huge margin.
I myself trust Castrol 0w40 at least until they do the same thing.
This is a pretty nasty but not uncommon sales and marketing practice when you're selling a commodity. Build a great premium expensive early release product then when it's built a reputation, cheapen production and quality then make a huge margin.
I myself trust Castrol 0w40 at least until they do the same thing.
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4WD
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GTL?
None of which you actually know. Doesn't M1 0W-40 carry all the certifications it had before except Longlife-01? And no one here knows whether that is due to the fact that it can't meet it or ExxonMobil decided to not pursue the certification. If you know which one it is then you are the only one here who does. The rest of your post is complete fantasy.
And please don't think I'm saying that because I'm some kind of M1 fanboy. I'm not. I moved five feet down the Walmart shelf for my BMW.
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think M1 0w40 built it's reputation on a great base oil. Got amazing reviews then they switched out their formula to something more economical and easier to discount all the time. They didn't discount M1 0w40 during it's first release and people are buying it even more now because they think it's the same stuff when it's not. Hence why it's lost some certs and doesn't do as well it used to in UOA.
This is a pretty nasty but not uncommon sales and marketing practice when you're selling a commodity. Build a great premium expensive early release product then when it's built a reputation, cheapen production and quality then make a huge margin.
I myself trust Castrol 0w40 at least until they do the same thing.
And please don't think I'm saying that because I'm some kind of M1 fanboy. I'm not. I moved five feet down the Walmart shelf for my BMW.
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think M1 0w40 built it's reputation on a great base oil. Got amazing reviews then they switched out their formula to something more economical and easier to discount all the time. They didn't discount M1 0w40 during it's first release and people are buying it even more now because they think it's the same stuff when it's not. Hence why it's lost some certs and doesn't do as well it used to in UOA.
This is a pretty nasty but not uncommon sales and marketing practice when you're selling a commodity. Build a great premium expensive early release product then when it's built a reputation, cheapen production and quality then make a huge margin.
I myself trust Castrol 0w40 at least until they do the same thing.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Indeed … I went surfing M1 sites in several international theaters … seems all but the US blend meets BMW and the other German builders …
Who knows …
Who knows …
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: kschachn
None of which you actually know. Doesn't M1 0W-40 carry all the certifications it had before except Longlife-01?
Correct. That's the only cert it no longer has AFAIK, LL-01. And the MSDS for it has changed a couple times since that happened too.
None of which you actually know. Doesn't M1 0W-40 carry all the certifications it had before except Longlife-01?
Correct. That's the only cert it no longer has AFAIK, LL-01. And the MSDS for it has changed a couple times since that happened too.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
I think M1 0w40 built it's reputation on a great base oil. Got amazing reviews then they switched out their formula to something more economical and easier to discount all the time. They didn't discount M1 0w40 during it's first release and people are buying it even more now because they think it's the same stuff when it's not. Hence why it's lost some certs and doesn't do as well it used to in UOA.
No.
Mobil 1 0w-40 has changed numerous times over the years, all the while maintaining the same list of certs and approvals. Significant milestones include the SM (PAO) move to SN (VISOM) in which the product became more shear stable and of course the latest shift to the FS formula (GTL) in which LL-01 disappeared. However, there were numerous sub-versions of the product along that timeline, including changes during the SM formula years, changes during the SN formula years and now changes during the FS formula period, which has most recently shown PAO on the MSDS (again).
The product was able to maintain all its approvals despite all of these changes, including the shift from a primary PAO base to much less expensive Group III (VISOM) so one should not immediately conclude that this latest change to GTL (which is supposed to be superior to VISOM) is a "cheapening" of the product, if anything, it should make it more like the older SM formula, which was the "bees knees" in terms of cold temperature performance and likely the product you are thinking of.
I think M1 0w40 built it's reputation on a great base oil. Got amazing reviews then they switched out their formula to something more economical and easier to discount all the time. They didn't discount M1 0w40 during it's first release and people are buying it even more now because they think it's the same stuff when it's not. Hence why it's lost some certs and doesn't do as well it used to in UOA.
No.
Mobil 1 0w-40 has changed numerous times over the years, all the while maintaining the same list of certs and approvals. Significant milestones include the SM (PAO) move to SN (VISOM) in which the product became more shear stable and of course the latest shift to the FS formula (GTL) in which LL-01 disappeared. However, there were numerous sub-versions of the product along that timeline, including changes during the SM formula years, changes during the SN formula years and now changes during the FS formula period, which has most recently shown PAO on the MSDS (again).
The product was able to maintain all its approvals despite all of these changes, including the shift from a primary PAO base to much less expensive Group III (VISOM) so one should not immediately conclude that this latest change to GTL (which is supposed to be superior to VISOM) is a "cheapening" of the product, if anything, it should make it more like the older SM formula, which was the "bees knees" in terms of cold temperature performance and likely the product you are thinking of.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Yeah, that's what M1 0w40 is known for these days... shear stability...
The VISOM version (SN) was more shear stable than the PAO version (SM).
However, since many of these UOA's are done via Blackstone, so fuel dilution is really unknown, we really have no idea how much the product legitimately sheared versus being diluted. But that's a whole other discussion.
Yeah, that's what M1 0w40 is known for these days... shear stability...
The VISOM version (SN) was more shear stable than the PAO version (SM).
However, since many of these UOA's are done via Blackstone, so fuel dilution is really unknown, we really have no idea how much the product legitimately sheared versus being diluted. But that's a whole other discussion.
FWIW: I have run M1 0W-40 on my Kia Optima SX TGDI for almost 5 years and 60K miles with no issues to date.
I've switched to Castrol Edge 0W-040 with my last OCI and all is good thus far (time will tell).
My engine was spec'd to also run 5W-40 oil but I run 0W-040 with 4.5K OCI and I always use a Top Tier gas.
I should note that I also run a very good OCC on my engine and do drain out about 2oz of nasty stuff per OCI.
My past UOAs have shown fuel dilution (if doing a Polaris analysis) and is why I run what is considered "severe service" OCI interval.
I don't normally "jump around" on what oil I use so moving from M1 to Castrol Edge was significant for me but I think a very good choice. Till will tell.
I've switched to Castrol Edge 0W-040 with my last OCI and all is good thus far (time will tell).
My engine was spec'd to also run 5W-40 oil but I run 0W-040 with 4.5K OCI and I always use a Top Tier gas.
I should note that I also run a very good OCC on my engine and do drain out about 2oz of nasty stuff per OCI.
My past UOAs have shown fuel dilution (if doing a Polaris analysis) and is why I run what is considered "severe service" OCI interval.
I don't normally "jump around" on what oil I use so moving from M1 to Castrol Edge was significant for me but I think a very good choice. Till will tell.
Not much feedback on pennzoil's 0w-40 offering. Is it Ultra or just PP ? I would throw in another option : Mobil 1 10w-30 HM
I respectfully disagree, Rat's testing shows psi shear strength differences of 50,000psi.
Doesn't most of the fuel in the oil evaporate out fairly quickly?
4WD
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In Rat III on this site … BrocL did a great job of explaining what Rat’s angle is … being 99% don’t have a fully whacked out and disposable BBC … move along … nothing to see here …
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: exShuttlemech
Doesn't most of the fuel in the oil evaporate out fairly quickly?
Nope.
There's been some good discussion on this in the UOA section recently.
Doesn't most of the fuel in the oil evaporate out fairly quickly?
Nope.
There's been some good discussion on this in the UOA section recently.
Originally Posted By: exShuttlemech
I respectfully disagree, Rat's testing shows psi shear strength differences of 50,000psi.
On multiple occasions it has been carefully explained to you in great detail how irrelevant that test and those numbers are, yet you keep posting these little interjections. Do you ever read what is posted in response to you? As an "ex shuttle mechanic" (if that's what you are) surely you can understand basic science and mathematics?
I respectfully disagree, Rat's testing shows psi shear strength differences of 50,000psi.
On multiple occasions it has been carefully explained to you in great detail how irrelevant that test and those numbers are, yet you keep posting these little interjections. Do you ever read what is posted in response to you? As an "ex shuttle mechanic" (if that's what you are) surely you can understand basic science and mathematics?
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