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Kohler v-twin engines #4537927
10/09/17 10:41 AM
10/09/17 10:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 611
WV
loneryder Offline OP
loneryder  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 611
WV
Recently I saw a new Kohler v-twin engine on a zero turn with the oil pan off. Was surprised to see a plastic cam gear and plastic governor gear which had broken. It was a new machine. I've always liked Kohler engines but I won't buy an engine with plastic gears. The new Toro commercial v-twins have plastic cam gears. The new Briggs Commercial Turf does Not have plastic gears in it. Not sure about Kawasaki but don't think so.

Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: loneryder] #4537938
10/09/17 10:50 AM
10/09/17 10:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,126
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,126
Waco, TX
Two different Kohlers:

Command = Good
Courage = garbage

Which was it?

LOTS of small engine makers use plastic cams, even Briggs & Stratton.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: loneryder] #4537962
10/09/17 11:32 AM
10/09/17 11:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,469
wi
dave123 Offline
dave123  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,469
wi
I like my Series 7000 on my Scag Z Turn

Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: loneryder] #4538275
10/09/17 03:50 PM
10/09/17 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,326
Watertown, New York
cronk Offline
cronk  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,326
Watertown, New York
Almost every small engine is going to have a plastic (nylon) governor gear.
The plastic cam gear or cam would turn me off though.


2008 Ford F350
2003 Chevy Cavalier
2011 Nissan Quest
1986 Pontiac Trans Am
1940 Ford 9N Tractor
Amsoil lubes and filters!
Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: loneryder] #4538765
10/10/17 06:14 AM
10/10/17 06:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,553
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Offline
jeepman3071  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,553
Storrs, Connecticut
Likely a Kohler Courage with plastic cam gears. One of the worst engines ever produced. I've seen the plastic cam gears break, head gaskets blow multiple times, oil leaks, bolts back out and smack the flywheel, and the blocks crack from weak metal.

Briggs single cylinder smaller engines (5-6hp or so) have nylon camshaft gears, but I haven't had any issues with those yet.


2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (181k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (36k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: Linctex] #4538857
10/10/17 08:06 AM
10/10/17 08:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 611
WV
loneryder Offline OP
loneryder  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 611
WV
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Two different Kohlers:

Command = Good
Courage = garbage

Which was it?

LOTS of small engine makers use plastic cams, even Briggs & Stratton.

I don't remember but it was on a 60" Big Dog z-turn. I would say it was a Command. It was at the dealer and he was surprised to see that also. It was a new mower in his stock. He starts them to move them outside and lets them run for a while to warm up the oil.

Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: loneryder] #4538868
10/10/17 08:26 AM
10/10/17 08:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,553
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Offline
jeepman3071  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,553
Storrs, Connecticut
Commands don't have plastic cam gears. The Courage engine is an overhead cam engine with the plastic gears.

Courage has replaced Command in a lot of applications because they are much cheaper. I see new zero turns all the time with these Courage engines, and other Chinese clones.

Courage cam gears:



2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (181k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (36k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: cronk] #4538875
10/10/17 08:31 AM
10/10/17 08:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,933
Canada
boraticus Offline
boraticus  Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,933
Canada
Originally Posted By: cronk
Almost every small engine is going to have a plastic (nylon) governor gear.
The plastic cam gear or cam would turn me off though.


That would be true.

My neighbour's lawnmower kept dangerously over-revving (B&S engine). Upon inspection the nylon governor gear had come apart.

I loath the idea of plastic internal engine parts and will go to great lengths to avoid buying anything with plastic internal parts.

Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: loneryder] #4538898
10/10/17 08:46 AM
10/10/17 08:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,012
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,012
Buffalo, NY
Like said above, I don't care for the Kohler Courage single cylinder series of engines. Some aspects of the design are good, but the whole package is not. OTOH, I find the Courage V-twin series of engines to be good. I have not known anyone with them to have issues. I had one on a ZTR for a few years and liked the engine.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: boraticus] #4539382
10/10/17 04:19 PM
10/10/17 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,326
Watertown, New York
cronk Offline
cronk  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,326
Watertown, New York
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: cronk
Almost every small engine is going to have a plastic (nylon) governor gear.
The plastic cam gear or cam would turn me off though.


That would be true.

My neighbour's lawnmower kept dangerously over-revving (B&S engine). Upon inspection the nylon governor gear had come apart.

I loath the idea of plastic internal engine parts and will go to great lengths to avoid buying anything with plastic internal parts.


Even the legendary Honda GX engines use a plastic governor gear!


2008 Ford F350
2003 Chevy Cavalier
2011 Nissan Quest
1986 Pontiac Trans Am
1940 Ford 9N Tractor
Amsoil lubes and filters!
Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: JTK] #4539402
10/10/17 04:50 PM
10/10/17 04:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,394
Florida
Ausfahrt Offline
Ausfahrt  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,394
Florida
Originally Posted By: JTK
Like said above, I don't care for the Kohler Courage single cylinder series of engines. Some aspects of the design are good, but the whole package is not. OTOH, I find the Courage V-twin series of engines to be good. I have not known anyone with them to have issues. I had one on a ZTR for a few years and liked the engine.


+1


'14 Subaru Crosstrek MT 70k
'15 Tacoma 4x4 MT 30k
'03 Camry AT 148k
'07 BMW R1200GSA 71k
'98 Electra Glide 52k


Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: cronk] #4539445
10/10/17 05:34 PM
10/10/17 05:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,933
Canada
boraticus Offline
boraticus  Offline
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,933
Canada
Originally Posted By: cronk
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: cronk
Almost every small engine is going to have a plastic (nylon) governor gear.
The plastic cam gear or cam would turn me off though.


That would be true.

My neighbour's lawnmower kept dangerously over-revving (B&S engine). Upon inspection the nylon governor gear had come apart.

I loath the idea of plastic internal engine parts and will go to great lengths to avoid buying anything with plastic internal parts.


Even the legendary Honda GX engines use a plastic governor gear!


What's this world coming to?

Seems Honda is prone to using plastic internal parts in some of their engines. That's disappointing. Nonetheless, their GX series engines are indeed legendary. Wonder how long they've been using plastic governor gears?

Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: loneryder] #4539478
10/10/17 06:10 PM
10/10/17 06:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 766
missouri
ragtoplvr Offline
ragtoplvr  Offline
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 766
missouri
On the courage I think it is important to prefill the filter as full as possible per the instructions. They have no oil pressure until it fills.

I do know of one where the owner did not prefill his. Putting it on dry is good enough for his car, good enough for the mower. The rod parted company with the crank at about 100 hours. I got mine at the same time, it now has about 250 hours, it is 7 years old so has had 7 changes. Still seems good. That is still many hours away from acceptable. maybe I am just lucky.

Rod

Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: ragtoplvr] #4539531
10/10/17 07:05 PM
10/10/17 07:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,012
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,012
Buffalo, NY
Do the Courage single cyl engines have full pressure lubrication? Most make/models don't. The oil pump just circulates oil through the filter. Some have top bearing pressure lube and splash lube for the crank end and con rod.

Last edited by JTK; 10/10/17 07:05 PM.

2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Kohler v-twin engines [Re: boraticus] #4539943
10/11/17 08:03 AM
10/11/17 08:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,553
Storrs, Connecticut
jeepman3071 Offline
jeepman3071  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,553
Storrs, Connecticut
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: cronk
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: cronk
Almost every small engine is going to have a plastic (nylon) governor gear.
The plastic cam gear or cam would turn me off though.


That would be true.

My neighbour's lawnmower kept dangerously over-revving (B&S engine). Upon inspection the nylon governor gear had come apart.

I loath the idea of plastic internal engine parts and will go to great lengths to avoid buying anything with plastic internal parts.


Even the legendary Honda GX engines use a plastic governor gear!


What's this world coming to?

Seems Honda is prone to using plastic internal parts in some of their engines. That's disappointing. Nonetheless, their GX series engines are indeed legendary. Wonder how long they've been using plastic governor gears?



The Honda GC engines that have the overhead cam and use a timing belt have a plastic cam gear. I haven't seen any issues with it though, likely because it is connected with a belt.


2000 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (181k) - Pennzoil 10w30, Napa Gold 1516, Magnefine trans filter
2009 BMW 328i (36k) - Castrol Edge Euro 0w40, MANN HU816X
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