Recent Topics
Uber Self-Driv Death: Disabled Pedest Avoidance!!!!
by oil_film_movies. 09/22/18 02:29 PM
Question on Backlight setting on LED tv's
by LoneRanger. 09/22/18 02:16 PM
Are all Dexos 1 Gen 2 Oils the Same?
by Gene K. 09/22/18 01:58 PM
ECOGARD X10479 CUT OPEN
by 53' Stude. 09/22/18 01:38 PM
Rust-Oleum Driveway Sealer review
by SVTCobra. 09/22/18 01:24 PM
Flush OAT/IAT mixture
by OpenClose. 09/22/18 12:20 PM
And They Say Spelling is Not Important.
by PimTac. 09/22/18 12:06 PM
Toyota Genuine oil 10W30
by gordond. 09/22/18 09:27 AM
Good Dealers
by HowAboutThis. 09/22/18 09:12 AM
electric brakes rely on heat to work?
by motor_oil_madman. 09/22/18 09:09 AM
help please 7.25 briggs idle too fast
by edwardh1. 09/22/18 08:49 AM
Java update and Flash not working
by JLTD. 09/22/18 08:47 AM
Bought a Giulia
by RamFan. 09/22/18 08:38 AM
Toyota Genuine oil 10W30
by gordond. 09/22/18 08:37 AM
Mobil 1 Extended Protection High Mileage Test
by njohnson. 09/22/18 07:57 AM
WPA 3 Wireless Security Coming
by StevieC. 09/22/18 01:16 AM
Robo Calls/Telemarketers
by Nick1994. 09/22/18 12:47 AM
Newest Members
Sarrge, Big_R, gordond, mrgreggn, JRMFt11
66040 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
81 registered members (77GrandPrix, 2oldtommy, 53' Stude, 2010Civic, 4WD, 8 invisible), 1,857 guests, and 61 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics290,827
Posts4,851,098
Members66,040
Most Online3,590
Jan 24th, 2017
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
New T6 bottles missing API SM? #4536605
10/07/17 10:20 PM
10/07/17 10:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 72
Virginia
KDonkey Offline OP
KDonkey  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 72
Virginia
I haven't seen this discussed on the board (How could this be, I had to have missed it) but I noticed the new bottle shape T6 has CK-4 but not SM anymore. What happened here?

Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey] #4536624
10/07/17 10:40 PM
10/07/17 10:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,141
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,141
Ontario, Canada
Same thing happened to Delvac.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey] #4536633
10/07/17 10:49 PM
10/07/17 10:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
bubbatime Online shocked
bubbatime  Online Shocked
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,841
South Florida
They used to get a variance, which allowed them to be over certain additive levels on certain things. Those days are coming to pass. That's how I understand it.

Dual rated is becoming much harder to do, with the latest specs and govt regulations.

That being said, I would run the snot of some CK4 oils in certain gas applications.


17 Chrysler Pacifica Mobil 1 5W30
13 Yamaha XT250 Valv MC 10W40
12 Suzuki S40 Rotella 15W40
10 Acura TSX 2.4 PZL Plat 5W30
06 GMC Sierra Nextgen 10W30


Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey] #4536644
10/07/17 11:03 PM
10/07/17 11:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,159
USA
Reddy45 Offline
Reddy45  Offline
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,159
USA
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey] #4536656
10/07/17 11:19 PM
10/07/17 11:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 506
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 506
E. Tennessee
If it ain't SM/SN rated, it ain't going in my gas powered GDI turbo engine!
Too many other good alternatives.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (74K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (70K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: Reddy45] #4536696
10/07/17 11:59 PM
10/07/17 11:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

The Multi-Vehicle T6 is dual rated
http://rotella.shell.com/products/shell-...heavy-duty.html

Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey] #4536880
10/08/17 08:38 AM
10/08/17 08:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,200
New England
gathermewool Offline
gathermewool  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,200
New England
Is SM still registered or is it like when an oil is claimed to be SL-rated, even though that's not a real thing anymore?


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: bigj_16] #4537151
10/08/17 01:13 PM
10/08/17 01:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 12
MI
joeparker54 Offline
joeparker54  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 12
MI
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

The Multi-Vehicle T6 is dual rated
http://rotella.shell.com/products/shell-...heavy-duty.html


Has anyone seen the multi-vehicle out in the wild yet? I can't seem to find much info online aside from Shell's site.

Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: gathermewool] #4537181
10/08/17 01:42 PM
10/08/17 01:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,368
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,368
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Is SM still registered or is it like when an oil is claimed to be SL-rated, even though that's not a real thing anymore?

They're both still "real," but most new HDEOs that are dual rated use SN. Even Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 is CJ-4/SN, rather than SM, since it came out after the original CJ-4 rollout.

joeparker54: It's out there. You may have to contact a distributor, though, since 5w-30 E6 lubricants are still a bit of a niche in North America.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: Garak] #4537752
10/09/17 08:21 AM
10/09/17 08:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,200
New England
gathermewool Offline
gathermewool  Offline
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,200
New England
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Is SM still registered or is it like when an oil is claimed to be SL-rated, even though that's not a real thing anymore?

They're both still "real," but most new HDEOs that are dual rated use SN. Even Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 is CJ-4/SN, rather than SM, since it came out after the original CJ-4 rollout.

joeparker54: It's out there. You may have to contact a distributor, though, since 5w-30 E6 lubricants are still a bit of a niche in North America.


I can't recall where I read it, but I remember reading something about older specs, such as SL (and earlier) and Dexron (specifically III) being on labels, but that they weren't checked or certified. My question should have been: are out-dated, superseded specs still certified - does the oil have to pay to have it certified at an older spec? I imagine some of the gas station oils are certified in someone's basement as being "kind of slippery, for enhanced protection", and are called out by PQIA as not meeting the labeled standard.


'14 Forester XT FA20DIT (Cobb Stage 1)
Edge 0W-40 + FU filter
'15 Legacy FB25 (OEM Stage, uh, neg. 7?)
Edge 0W-20 + FU filter
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: gathermewool] #4537801
10/09/17 09:55 AM
10/09/17 09:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,898
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,898
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I can't recall where I read it, but I remember reading something about older specs, such as SL (and earlier) and Dexron (specifically III) being on labels, but that they weren't checked or certified. My question should have been: are out-dated, superseded specs still certified - does the oil have to pay to have it certified at an older spec? I imagine some of the gas station oils are certified in someone's basement as being "kind of slippery, for enhanced protection", and are called out by PQIA as not meeting the labeled standard.

As far as the API goes, they list what is a current category (and what is not) on their website here:

http://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-documents/oil-categories


1994 BMW 530i, 228K
1996 Honda Accord, 263K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 400K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 271K
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: gathermewool] #4537804
10/09/17 09:57 AM
10/09/17 09:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,368
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,368
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I can't speak for Dexron, although I think you're right about the older ones being deprecated by GM. SL is still a current specification under the API. GF-3, however, is not. So, if an oil shows SL and the API Donut, it's legitimate. If an oil shows SL and the Starburst, it's either baloney or very old stock. I'm sure I could find some old stock here if I looked hard enough.

You'll see SL legitimately used on European A3/B4 30 grades, such as GC 0w-30 and Castrol Edge 5w-30 A3/B4. The A3/B4 40 grades get to use SM or SN, as the case may be. They couldn't sneak in under the old CJ-4/SM or CJ-4/SN rules for phosphorus, since A3/B4 would have a difficult time qualifying for CJ-4 or CK-4 due to excessive SA. So, we see an SL for 30s and SN for 40s.

Of course, there are oils out there that do just claim SL or newer, and do so honestly, without an attempt to misinform. Euro oils have claimed to meet the wear protection requirements of SN (obviously they do and exceed that) but not the phosphorus levels. Some very niche HDEOs from Imperial Oil (i.e. Mobil) and Petro-Canada claim suitability for certain API specifications, diesel and gas, without actually being formally certified, either due to it not being worth certifying or the certification being obsolete. Petro-Canada data sheets are very clear as what HDEO is actually certified for what specification and what it's actually just suitable for use.

That's most commonly seen with an oil where you see CF on it and can trust it to really be suitable (i.e. M1 0w-40, RP 10w-40). Those oils would be very legitimate (if costly) choices for a fair number of diesel engines still on the road, such as old Cummins, Powerstroke 7.3, GM 6.2 and 6.5 examples, and various older agricultural engines. In fact, they'd be much more suitable than various oils of the day that tacked on a CF. You'll also see reference to an obsolete certification when you're looking at the dedicated two stroke diesel engine oils.

As an aside, back when CF was current, my dad decidedly did not use a PCMO with CF tacked on in his diesel engines, even though that was technically legitimate. 10w-30 was a suitable winter weight for most of them, but he didn't grab QS 10w-30 that happened to have a CF on it. He bought Esso XD-3 in the appropriate variety and ran it. This was a weakness of the API specification at the time, and those who didn't see it could face issues. Doug Hillary has also told us some very interesting historical details of how that transpired.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey] #4537903
10/09/17 11:21 AM
10/09/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 186
Chicago
Fraser434 Offline
Fraser434  Offline
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 186
Chicago
Its been covered many times, when CK-4 oil came out, SN was then limited to 800ppm phosphrous. But current diesels are still looking for 1100ppm. They thought it was a loophole that was being exploited to put "catalyst" damage additives into cars they felt didn't need it.

If you see a diesel oil that is now CK-4/SN dual rated that means it has low additive, 800ppm zinc/phos. Bad.

Its a giant load of bullhockey. Put the diesel oil in, nothing has changed.

Last edited by Fraser434; 10/09/17 11:24 AM.
Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: joeparker54] #4538028
10/09/17 01:15 PM
10/09/17 01:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: joeparker54
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

The Multi-Vehicle T6 is dual rated
http://rotella.shell.com/products/shell-...heavy-duty.html


Has anyone seen the multi-vehicle out in the wild yet? I can't seem to find much info online aside from Shell's site.
I haven't seen it yet either. It isn't in Walmart or on Amazon. Walmart does have the new dual-rated
Delo 400 XLE SAE 10W-30.

Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: Fraser434] #4538127
10/09/17 02:30 PM
10/09/17 02:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,368
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,368
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Its been covered many times, when CK-4 oil came out, SN was then limited to 800ppm phosphrous.

That only applies to what are known as ILSAC grades, such as 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 HDEOs. That requirement does not exist for the 40 grade HDEOs, or even a hypothetical SAE 30 HDEO. It's also important to look at the ACEA specifications. There is a Castrol 5w-30 HDEO out there that is E6 and CJ-4, not even listing a gasoline rating whatsoever, but is low phosphorus by virtue of that ACEA specification. Of course, it has builder approvals out the wazoo.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™