Recent Topics
Any synthetic oil rebates currently or soon?
by 07Piloteer
06/20/18 01:32 PM
2018 Hyundai elantra motor oil
by kapama
06/20/18 01:00 PM
SN Plus on shelves
by 03s
06/20/18 12:23 PM
Group 90 Battery - 45 vs 60aH rating
by The Critic
06/20/18 12:19 PM
Tire on Church 15 Passenger Van
by Gebo
06/20/18 11:58 AM
Battery Disconnect Switch?
by Pike51
06/20/18 11:35 AM
03 Maxima Cam sensor questions
by LeakySeals
06/20/18 11:09 AM
Wood Fairing?? Yes, and it's beautiful!
by webfors
06/20/18 11:08 AM
2006 Prius
by Kira
06/20/18 11:06 AM
Amsoil XL 5w30, 10K OCI, 2006 Expeditition
by meborder
06/20/18 10:18 AM
Mouse Visiting Car
by Ifixyawata
06/20/18 10:07 AM
Hit a shopping cart at 30mph
by LeakySeals
06/20/18 10:00 AM
Let's Talk Bed Pillows
by LoneRanger
06/20/18 09:21 AM
Changed Speedo Gear on 700r4 Tailshaft
by Pike51
06/20/18 09:20 AM
Which do you prefer: ZL-1 Camaro or GS Corvette ?
by Mr Nice
06/20/18 08:41 AM
CVT Discussion
by Sierra048
06/20/18 08:28 AM
Can't get Unifi AP V2 to work on TDS...
by WhizkidTN
06/20/18 07:34 AM
Need mini grease gun
by Duffyjr
06/20/18 07:02 AM
Mazda 6 O2 sensor - CA emission
by Chester11
06/20/18 06:57 AM
Brake Bleeder
by supton
06/20/18 06:56 AM
Newest Members
Theraven, battleman13, Shassis, Santo, aligoodn
65276 Registered Users
Who's Online
93 registered (07Piloteer, 03s, Ben Boyle, 69Torino, 97prizm, 853okg, 12 invisible), 1600 Guests and 36 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65276 Members
67 Forums
285653 Topics
4767163 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#4536605 - 10/07/17 10:20 PM New T6 bottles missing API SM?
KDonkey Offline


Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 72
Loc: Virginia
I haven't seen this discussed on the board (How could this be, I had to have missed it) but I noticed the new bottle shape T6 has CK-4 but not SM anymore. What happened here?

Top
#4536624 - 10/07/17 10:40 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36437
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Same thing happened to Delvac.
_________________________
2016 Durango Limited
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT

Top
#4536633 - 10/07/17 10:49 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey]
bubbatime Offline


Registered: 03/18/08
Posts: 5622
Loc: South Florida
They used to get a variance, which allowed them to be over certain additive levels on certain things. Those days are coming to pass. That's how I understand it.

Dual rated is becoming much harder to do, with the latest specs and govt regulations.

That being said, I would run the snot of some CK4 oils in certain gas applications.
_________________________
17 Chrysler Pacifica Mobil 1 5W30
13 Yamaha XT250 Valv MC 10W40
12 Suzuki S40 Rotella 15W40
10 Acura TSX 2.4 PZL Plat 5W30
06 GMC Sierra Nextgen 10W30



Top
#4536644 - 10/07/17 11:03 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey]
Reddy45 Offline


Registered: 08/15/08
Posts: 2967
Loc: USA
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

Top
#4536656 - 10/07/17 11:19 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey]
WhizkidTN Offline


Registered: 12/05/16
Posts: 488
Loc: E. Tennessee
If it ain't SM/SN rated, it ain't going in my gas powered GDI turbo engine!
Too many other good alternatives.
_________________________
His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (71K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (66K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607

Top
#4536696 - 10/07/17 11:59 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: Reddy45]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1267
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

The Multi-Vehicle T6 is dual rated
http://rotella.shell.com/products/shell-...heavy-duty.html

Top
#4536880 - 10/08/17 08:38 AM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 5987
Is SM still registered or is it like when an oil is claimed to be SL-rated, even though that's not a real thing anymore?

Top
#4537151 - 10/08/17 01:13 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: bigj_16]
joeparker54 Offline


Registered: 04/25/17
Posts: 12
Loc: MI
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

The Multi-Vehicle T6 is dual rated
http://rotella.shell.com/products/shell-...heavy-duty.html


Has anyone seen the multi-vehicle out in the wild yet? I can't seem to find much info online aside from Shell's site.

Top
#4537181 - 10/08/17 01:42 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: gathermewool]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Is SM still registered or is it like when an oil is claimed to be SL-rated, even though that's not a real thing anymore?

They're both still "real," but most new HDEOs that are dual rated use SN. Even Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 is CJ-4/SN, rather than SM, since it came out after the original CJ-4 rollout.

joeparker54: It's out there. You may have to contact a distributor, though, since 5w-30 E6 lubricants are still a bit of a niche in North America.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4537752 - 10/09/17 08:21 AM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: Garak]
gathermewool Offline


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 5987
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Is SM still registered or is it like when an oil is claimed to be SL-rated, even though that's not a real thing anymore?

They're both still "real," but most new HDEOs that are dual rated use SN. Even Delvac 1 LE 5w-30 is CJ-4/SN, rather than SM, since it came out after the original CJ-4 rollout.

joeparker54: It's out there. You may have to contact a distributor, though, since 5w-30 E6 lubricants are still a bit of a niche in North America.


I can't recall where I read it, but I remember reading something about older specs, such as SL (and earlier) and Dexron (specifically III) being on labels, but that they weren't checked or certified. My question should have been: are out-dated, superseded specs still certified - does the oil have to pay to have it certified at an older spec? I imagine some of the gas station oils are certified in someone's basement as being "kind of slippery, for enhanced protection", and are called out by PQIA as not meeting the labeled standard.

Top
#4537801 - 10/09/17 09:55 AM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: gathermewool]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9391
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I can't recall where I read it, but I remember reading something about older specs, such as SL (and earlier) and Dexron (specifically III) being on labels, but that they weren't checked or certified. My question should have been: are out-dated, superseded specs still certified - does the oil have to pay to have it certified at an older spec? I imagine some of the gas station oils are certified in someone's basement as being "kind of slippery, for enhanced protection", and are called out by PQIA as not meeting the labeled standard.

As far as the API goes, they list what is a current category (and what is not) on their website here:

http://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil/eolcs-categories-and-documents/oil-categories
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 394K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4537804 - 10/09/17 09:57 AM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: gathermewool]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
I can't speak for Dexron, although I think you're right about the older ones being deprecated by GM. SL is still a current specification under the API. GF-3, however, is not. So, if an oil shows SL and the API Donut, it's legitimate. If an oil shows SL and the Starburst, it's either baloney or very old stock. I'm sure I could find some old stock here if I looked hard enough.

You'll see SL legitimately used on European A3/B4 30 grades, such as GC 0w-30 and Castrol Edge 5w-30 A3/B4. The A3/B4 40 grades get to use SM or SN, as the case may be. They couldn't sneak in under the old CJ-4/SM or CJ-4/SN rules for phosphorus, since A3/B4 would have a difficult time qualifying for CJ-4 or CK-4 due to excessive SA. So, we see an SL for 30s and SN for 40s.

Of course, there are oils out there that do just claim SL or newer, and do so honestly, without an attempt to misinform. Euro oils have claimed to meet the wear protection requirements of SN (obviously they do and exceed that) but not the phosphorus levels. Some very niche HDEOs from Imperial Oil (i.e. Mobil) and Petro-Canada claim suitability for certain API specifications, diesel and gas, without actually being formally certified, either due to it not being worth certifying or the certification being obsolete. Petro-Canada data sheets are very clear as what HDEO is actually certified for what specification and what it's actually just suitable for use.

That's most commonly seen with an oil where you see CF on it and can trust it to really be suitable (i.e. M1 0w-40, RP 10w-40). Those oils would be very legitimate (if costly) choices for a fair number of diesel engines still on the road, such as old Cummins, Powerstroke 7.3, GM 6.2 and 6.5 examples, and various older agricultural engines. In fact, they'd be much more suitable than various oils of the day that tacked on a CF. You'll also see reference to an obsolete certification when you're looking at the dedicated two stroke diesel engine oils.

As an aside, back when CF was current, my dad decidedly did not use a PCMO with CF tacked on in his diesel engines, even though that was technically legitimate. 10w-30 was a suitable winter weight for most of them, but he didn't grab QS 10w-30 that happened to have a CF on it. He bought Esso XD-3 in the appropriate variety and ran it. This was a weakness of the API specification at the time, and those who didn't see it could face issues. Doug Hillary has also told us some very interesting historical details of how that transpired.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4537903 - 10/09/17 11:21 AM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: KDonkey]
Fraser434 Offline


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 183
Loc: Chicago
Its been covered many times, when CK-4 oil came out, SN was then limited to 800ppm phosphrous. But current diesels are still looking for 1100ppm. They thought it was a loophole that was being exploited to put "catalyst" damage additives into cars they felt didn't need it.

If you see a diesel oil that is now CK-4/SN dual rated that means it has low additive, 800ppm zinc/phos. Bad.

Its a giant load of bullhockey. Put the diesel oil in, nothing has changed.


Edited by Fraser434 (10/09/17 11:24 AM)

Top
#4538028 - 10/09/17 01:15 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: joeparker54]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1267
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: joeparker54
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I thought Shell decided to no longer dual-rate any of their Rotella oils?

The Multi-Vehicle T6 is dual rated
http://rotella.shell.com/products/shell-...heavy-duty.html


Has anyone seen the multi-vehicle out in the wild yet? I can't seem to find much info online aside from Shell's site.
I haven't seen it yet either. It isn't in Walmart or on Amazon. Walmart does have the new dual-rated
Delo 400 XLE SAE 10W-30.

Top
#4538127 - 10/09/17 02:30 PM Re: New T6 bottles missing API SM? [Re: Fraser434]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: Fraser434
Its been covered many times, when CK-4 oil came out, SN was then limited to 800ppm phosphrous.

That only applies to what are known as ILSAC grades, such as 0w-30, 5w-30, and 10w-30 HDEOs. That requirement does not exist for the 40 grade HDEOs, or even a hypothetical SAE 30 HDEO. It's also important to look at the ACEA specifications. There is a Castrol 5w-30 HDEO out there that is E6 and CJ-4, not even listing a gasoline rating whatsoever, but is low phosphorus by virtue of that ACEA specification. Of course, it has builder approvals out the wazoo.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >