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#4536357 - 10/07/17 04:42 PM Cold start - dino vs blend
Duffyjr Offline


Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 503
Loc: Nebraska
From what I understand synthetics flow better and can reach critical parts faster than a dino so I assume a blend is somewhere in between. What I was wondering is if I replace a 10w30 dino with a 10w30 blend can I assume it will flow faster?

Another way to ask this and may help me understand is I know a 5w30 will flow better than 10w30 in the winter I get that but if you were to compare the 10w30 blend to the dino would it's flow characteristics be closer to a 5w30 or 10w30?

If it helps knowing the two oils, I replaced the VR1 10w30 dino with Magnatec 10w30 in my truck.
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89 GMC Sierra T5 10w30/Wix
08 Lucerne Mobil 5000 5w30
99 LeSabre QSGB 10w30/TG
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30

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#4536361 - 10/07/17 04:46 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6996
Loc: Mahzurrah!
You will need to look at the specs of the oils you are interested in. There will not be a ton of difference, for example if a blend 10w30 flowed significantly better it's actually a 5w30, which is what it would be labeled anyway. If you are worried about cold flow find a thick for grade 5w30, like Castrol High Mileage for example.
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09 Lincoln MKZ AWD 91k - M1 AFE 0w30
12 KIA Sedona 86k - Edge 0w40
09 Ford Focus 129k - GTX UltraClean 5w30
00 Chevy Lumina 195k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
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#4536362 - 10/07/17 04:48 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2731
Loc: Wet side WA
Why would you go to Synthetic Blend rather than Full Synthetic? Maybe to save .003 cents a mile.
_________________________
2004 Toyota Corolla 121525
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74016
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

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#4536368 - 10/07/17 05:07 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: JohnnyJohnson]
Duffyjr Offline


Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 503
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Why would you go to Synthetic Blend rather than Full Synthetic? Maybe to save .003 cents a mile.


That and I just wanted to try it. I fell asleep the other night watching the Velocity channel and I think that magnatec commercial got embedded in my sub conscious.
_________________________
89 GMC Sierra T5 10w30/Wix
08 Lucerne Mobil 5000 5w30
99 LeSabre QSGB 10w30/TG
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30

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#4536373 - 10/07/17 05:15 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: KCJeep]
Duffyjr Offline


Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 503
Loc: Nebraska
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
You will need to look at the specs of the oils you are interested in. There will not be a ton of difference, for example if a blend 10w30 flowed significantly better it's actually a 5w30, which is what it would be labeled anyway. If you are worried about cold flow find a thick for grade 5w30, like Castrol High Mileage for example.


Not worried at all about the 10w30 protection just curious about the flow.
_________________________
89 GMC Sierra T5 10w30/Wix
08 Lucerne Mobil 5000 5w30
99 LeSabre QSGB 10w30/TG
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30

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#4536403 - 10/07/17 06:05 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4611
Loc: Virginia
A 5w would likely flow the same pretty much the same whether it be dino or synthetic. At -30C where the test temperature is tested for a 5w rating the difference between a syn ot dino would be fairly close. I've seen 5w synthetics rated as low as 3800 CCS and conventional oils usually at 5400 CCS. I really doubt that the difference between those two would really be noticable at -30C. Now get down another 5C to -35C there would be a difference noticed at that low of a temp. If one were to see -35C temps or colder I would run a 0w oil for sure. So it would only be at the outermost limits of a 5w where one would see any differences in flow. In which at that low of a temperature it would be better to drop down to a 0w.
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"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."

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#4536406 - 10/07/17 06:10 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
JohnnyJohnson Offline


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2731
Loc: Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Why would you go to Synthetic Blend rather than Full Synthetic? Maybe to save .003 cents a mile.


That and I just wanted to try it. I fell asleep the other night watching the Velocity channel and I think that magnatec commercial got embedded in my sub conscious.



My feeling is the sooner you switch over to Full Synthetic the better off your car will be. But a small disclaimer it won't help if someone T-bones it!
_________________________
2004 Toyota Corolla 121525
Out: QSUD 5W-30 Purolator One 5030
In: Valvoline ML 5w-30 TG4967 117530 2-8-18
2006 Duramax 74016
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73752 4-22-18

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#4536418 - 10/07/17 06:28 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39824
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
From what I understand synthetics flow better and can reach critical parts faster than a dino so I assume a blend is somewhere in between. What I was wondering is if I replace a 10w30 dino with a 10w30 blend can I assume it will flow faster?

Another way to ask this and may help me understand is I know a 5w30 will flow better than 10w30 in the winter I get that but if you were to compare the 10w30 blend to the dino would it's flow characteristics be closer to a 5w30 or 10w30?


Be careful in what you mean about "flow".

the "W" rating has two characteristics, cold cranking, and MRV.

MRV is the ability for the oil to "flow" to the oil pump pick-up (and drain back) at the extremes of temperature (-20 to -40C range)....it has nothing to do with how quickly the oil reaches the remote points in the engine.

At freezing, the remote points won't get wet sooner with a 5W over a 10W...that's just the way it is....at -30C, the 10W may well not be able to feed the pickup tube.

And as other have stated, if it tests better than a 10W, and passes the tests for a 5W it has to be labelled as a 5W...you can't make a 0W, and put it in 4 different packages 0W, 5W, 10W, and 15W.

As to dino versus syn versus blend...they all meet the same cold pumping specs. However, the standard allows them to slip one grade in service, and I would suppose that the syn does better in not doing that.

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#4536524 - 10/07/17 08:51 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
Alex_V Offline


Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 1155
Loc: Campbellsville, KY
I prefer Valvoline products, and at Walmart Synpower/full syn Maxlife is about $8 more than straight Maxlife. Good ol' syn blend Maxlife has run my dad's Suburban to 439,000 mi. - don't see why that engine needs anything more.


Edited by Alex_V (10/07/17 08:52 PM)
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#4536531 - 10/07/17 08:57 PM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5506
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
So flow does not equal lubrication. The presence of oil equals lubrication. You know, door hinges and rusty bolts have no flow, but they can be lubricated.

Most internal combustion engines rely on pumped oil to get to the upper portions of the engine because gravity and shrouding prevent sling oil from reaching those points. But much of an engine relies on sling and splash oiling. Pumping does not do much for these areas (cam lobes, cylinder walls, piston skirts, timing chains, etc.).

All cold starts rely on the presence of existing oil left in place from shut down. The quality of the residual oil film has the most to do with wear on cold starts. So you need to think about that ... Synthetics can have drain-off issues. If the motor has many miles, the clearances are opened up some and you need a thicker residual oil film to cushion these parts.

Blends mostly address these issues by allowing some of the best properties of dino oils and some of the properties of synthetics. Good blends are good things for some motors.

the way to evaluate this is to raise the hood and listen to the motor on cold start. If it's clattering and clicking, it means the residual film was either too thin, or drained-off over time when parked. If it is quiet even before the the pressure gauge starts to rise, it means there was enough of the right kind of film to do the job.

Since oil pumps are 99% positive displacement devices, they will pump the same amount of oil into the galleries as long as it's liquid and can rise up the suction tube (oil pick-up). Unless the oil has gotten so cold that it is starting to gellate and won't feed, it is really a non-issue.
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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#4536776 - 10/08/17 04:40 AM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
gfh77665 Offline


Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 3789
Loc: Southeast Texas
Forget the "blends". Either buy conventional or full synthetic. Way too many people think the "blends" are a 50/50 mix, but that is totally wrong. Most have just 10-20% synthetic, and some won't even admit what their mix is.

If for some reason you just had to have a "blend", buy both and mix it 50-50 yourself. I would not even do that though. Its just too easy and cheap to use full synthetic and not get caught up in the "blend" nonsense.

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#4536785 - 10/08/17 05:22 AM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: BrocLuno]
Duffyjr Offline


Registered: 01/13/16
Posts: 503
Loc: Nebraska
Thanks for taking the time to explain this guys, I was way off in my thinking what happens during a cold start.

Here's the deal, my truck has always clicked a little on a cold start even in the summer for a couple seconds but not enough I was ever worried about it. In fact the only time you could really hear it is when I was parked next to other cars or next to the house where it is reflected back at me. Sitting out in the open you really had to listen for it to hear it. I just figured the oil wasn't getting their fast enough but after reading BrocLuno's reply about a cold start being dependent on the residual film makes more sense in this case.

Before I posted this my reason for trying a blend was to see if it would pump quicker to help with the clicking so when I got home yesterday morning I pulled up next to the house and left the truck sitting there so I could test it later on. About 7 hours later when I started it up I did not hear the clicking so maybe there is something to Castrol's intelligent molecule claim. Of course this was only one start up so I'll keep listening.
_________________________
89 GMC Sierra T5 10w30/Wix
08 Lucerne Mobil 5000 5w30
99 LeSabre QSGB 10w30/TG
18 Toro Super Recycler T5 10w30

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#4536789 - 10/08/17 05:30 AM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 39824
Loc: 'Stralia
BrocLuno has pulled apart way more engines than I have (I've got ten fingers, and still have 3 to go)...but I've never pulled one apart that was dry, regardless of how long it has sat.

100 years ago, they rated oils (for steam engines, but that adapted to IC engines) on "oiliness", which was the behaviour when two coated parts were rubbed against each other (same as when we start our cars).

The most "oily" oils were not the ones dug from the ground, but included animal fats and vegetable oils like castor oil.

They had their own disadvantages, in that being part of the food chain, parts of the food chain would attack them and degrade them.

That's sort of the "Intelligent" molecule.

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#4536906 - 10/08/17 09:08 AM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 6996
Loc: Mahzurrah!
Magnatec is likely to be as quiet as you'll find for start up noise as about anything, but often start up noise can also be traced to the oil filter. A leaky ADBV can cause that.

My Jeep was notorious for it, even in summer, but I found a few that worked better than anything else in that vehicle and virtually eliminate it. For that vehicle Napa Silvers, Fram Tough Guards and Motorcraft "S" series filters are the ticket.
_________________________
09 Lincoln MKZ AWD 91k - M1 AFE 0w30
12 KIA Sedona 86k - Edge 0w40
09 Ford Focus 129k - GTX UltraClean 5w30
00 Chevy Lumina 195k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee gone but not forgotten...

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#4537062 - 10/08/17 11:52 AM Re: Cold start - dino vs blend [Re: Duffyjr]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5506
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
Yeah, filters can make a huge contribution. But ... It depends on how the filter is mounted (horiz or vert) and how much can drain out. I agree that you should look at best ADBV that works for your vehicle.

Napa Gold (WIX) seems to work well for me most of the time. But I have a few more Baldwin's floating around if need be ... smile
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

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