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E15 Arrives in DFW #4536004
10/07/17 07:23 AM
10/07/17 07:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
DBMaster Offline OP
DBMaster  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
This may not be news for some of you, but my favorite QT station now has E15. It is seven cents per gallon cheaper than regular E10 and one point higher octane (88). I figured, what the heck, I'll see what happens. I reset my average fuel economy readout to see how much the mpg drops.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4536010
10/07/17 07:31 AM
10/07/17 07:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,206
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,206
Sunny Florida
Our newer GM trucks love the E20 at a few stations down here. They advance the timing so much the fuel economy hit is very small. Still only a few cents cheaper, if the price spread was equal to the alcohol content I'd like it better...


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4536070
10/07/17 08:46 AM
10/07/17 08:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,179
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,179
Lakeville, MN
You will probably find the same thing those of us living in the corn belt find. The fuel mileage you lose costs more than the decrease in price, making it uneconomical to run. Its held true for E85 and E15 has been even worse, with some places here selling it at the same price as E10 but labeled as "Super 88".

Performance wise, if flex fuel, you will gain some performance, but the cost difference isn't there.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4536217
10/07/17 12:04 PM
10/07/17 12:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 664
MN
14Accent Offline
14Accent  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 664
MN
The "super 88" is trickling in around here too. I'll pass. There's a holiday station 1 mile from my house that sells no-oxy premium. I'll stick with that, thank you!


2013 Chevrolet Volt - Saves enough in fuel to pay for itself!

2003 Cadillac Seville STS - The winter "beater", it uses the Volt's fuel
Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4536261
10/07/17 01:51 PM
10/07/17 01:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
danielLD Offline
danielLD  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
You shouldn't be able to notice a fuel economy drop. It's a very very small percentage of energy lost, you'll run into other things that affect the measurement at that point.

2. Your engine will run a bit cleaner and you reduce our dependency on foreign oil!

3. Your engine will run a lot longer the more ethanol you feed it. Ethanol when diluted into the crank case, doesn't corrode internals like gasoline.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4536904
10/08/17 08:03 AM
10/08/17 08:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
DBMaster Offline OP
DBMaster  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
^The only thing I found to contest in this post is the "dependency on foreign oil" part. The United States has been a net exporter of oil for some time now. The only reason any foreign oil gets used these days is, like any other commodity, refiners get it from the cheapest source. If hard pressed we could be oil independent.

Other than that I appreciate the fact that you didn't just jump on the anti-ethanol bandwagon.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4538153
10/09/17 02:01 PM
10/09/17 02:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,136
Michigan
ZZman Offline
ZZman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,136
Michigan
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
^The only thing I found to contest in this post is the "dependency on foreign oil" part. The United States has been a net exporter of oil for some time now. The only reason any foreign oil gets used these days is, like any other commodity, refiners get it from the cheapest source. If hard pressed we could be oil independent.

Other than that I appreciate the fact that you didn't just jump on the anti-ethanol bandwagon.


We produce almost 10 million barrels of oil a day. We consume almost 20 million a day. We export gas for profit for oil companies not to help America.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4538167
10/09/17 02:10 PM
10/09/17 02:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,136
Michigan
ZZman Offline
ZZman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,136
Michigan
We exported about 336 million gallons but use 391 million gallons a day


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4538193
10/09/17 02:35 PM
10/09/17 02:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
DBMaster Offline OP
DBMaster  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,461
DFW
I am neither friend or foe of ethanol in gasoline. It was helpful for my 89 Accord around the mid 90s when I was able to stop spending extra for mid-grade and use regular without knocking. The LXi had higher compression than the DXs or LXs of the time and thus required higher octane to prevent knocks. But, at the same time, I lost 10% in fuel economy due to the reformulation of the gas. So, the reduction in cost per gallon was more of a wash due to the 3 mpg reduction in fuel economy.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4538583
10/09/17 09:47 PM
10/09/17 09:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,179
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,179
Lakeville, MN
EPA work on the subject has shown that E15 delivers about a 2% fuel mileage drop compared to an E10 blend. Amazingly enough, that corresponds to the energy content difference between the two fuels.

So one can say its only a 2% difference and it shouldn't matter, but 2% is more than zero, everything else held the same.

So if the E15 is priced 2% lower than E10, then maybe it makes sense economically.

As far as ethanol being a better fuel than oil products, given the articles I've been reading in relation to the impacts of corn production on our water resources, I'd have a very hard time making the claim its clean energy. I'll leave it at that.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4538710
10/10/17 05:15 AM
10/10/17 05:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
danielLD Offline
danielLD  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
I really hate how I don't get notifications on any posts.

MNgopher. You're not factoring in how much less wear ethanol prevents on an engine, or how your vehicle will get better gas mileage because it has less deposits. Thinking long term, ethanol does not bother the engine and does not corrode it like gas.

Here's an argument I encounter daily, "but ethanol has so many less BTUs, mpgs, etc. But what happens when your fuel economy drops 20-30% because your intake is so caked in deposits it's lost efficiency and computer is not retarding spark and timing? See with ethanol fuels, you won't encounter that as much because ethanol keeps everything clean. E15 is better than E10, but honestly E30 is the good zone, keeps deposits down big time. If we ran E30 as a nation, things would change greatly.

DBmaster, many things at play. Saudis = smart. They will keep us out of the oil game forever. We must reduce foreign decency, actually oil dependency in general. I'm a believer in going to E25 as a nation.

Yes, ethanol production is complicated but is it really? Gasoline has had decades of process refinement, ethanol has had less than 2. It's not fair to say ethanol production isn't up to par with gasoline, when it's barely had time to figure out the challenges. Also, ethanol production energy comes from coal, so there's another argument there.

No alternative energy is entirely clean, but using them all in moderation will avoid the worst cons of each.

On the subject of emissions, it goes back and forth between whether or not the lowered emissions offsets the production challenges.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: DBMaster] #4538979
10/10/17 10:06 AM
10/10/17 10:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 310
Chicago suburbs
AP9 Offline
AP9  Offline
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 310
Chicago suburbs
Combustion of gasoline diluted with ethanol also results in increased ozone, an emission that is not reduced by 3-way catalytic converters.


1996 Chevrolet Impala SS - M1HM 5W-30, M1-201 filter
2018 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road Premium - TGMO 0W-20 (FF), factory filter
Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: danielLD] #4540138
10/11/17 11:06 AM
10/11/17 11:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 506
Joplin
Cressida Offline
Cressida  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 506
Joplin
Originally Posted By: danielLD
Thinking long term, ethanol does not bother the engine and does not corrode it like gas.

Gasoline has had decades of process refinement, ethanol has had less than 2. It's not fair to say ethanol production isn't up to par with gasoline, when it's barely had time to figure out the challenges.


I first recall using the ethanol blends in 1985 so I know it has been in use for over 30 years. About this time another blending option that was being used was MTBE.

I also remember all the problems it (E10) caused with plugging carburetor
fuel filters; including leaving me barely able to drive 30 mph until I finally got it sorted out. Many others experienced these same problems at that time and the destruction of fuel lines as well.

I know the modern cars are suppose to built to overcome these issues but any small engine repair shop will still tell you to avoid using it.

Last edited by Cressida; 10/11/17 11:07 AM.
Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: Cressida] #4540824
10/12/17 01:10 AM
10/12/17 01:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
danielLD Offline
danielLD  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 226
Chicago
Originally Posted By: Cressida
Originally Posted By: danielLD
Thinking long term, ethanol does not bother the engine and does not corrode it like gas.

Gasoline has had decades of process refinement, ethanol has had less than 2. It's not fair to say ethanol production isn't up to par with gasoline, when it's barely had time to figure out the challenges.


I first recall using the ethanol blends in 1985 so I know it has been in use for over 30 years. About this time another blending option that was being used was MTBE.

I also remember all the problems it (E10) caused with plugging carburetor
fuel filters; including leaving me barely able to drive 30 mph until I finally got it sorted out. Many others experienced these same problems at that time and the destruction of fuel lines as well.

I know the modern cars are suppose to built to overcome these issues but any small engine repair shop will still tell you to avoid using it.


Right, there's always the lawnmower argument. Well, at any small engine repair shop, they also sell E0 gasoline and not gasohol.

Re: E15 Arrives in DFW [Re: danielLD] #4541110
10/12/17 10:40 AM
10/12/17 10:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,251
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,251
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
With respect to a lot of small engine applications, I don't blame the ethanol. I blame the 80 cents they spent making the fuelling system. I've had rapid carb failures on stuff that only used E0, too. E10 is just a handy scapegoat for manufacturers that use garbage parts.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
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