DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ?

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Based on above title , will new DEXOS1 Gen 2 PP still be able to claim __% cleaner thsn M1 ? ... For GDI engines I have stayed away from PP due to the high calcium content. I will be curious to see a VOA of the new Gen 2 oil from PP (SOPUS synthetics have a high calcium content in general) . Lastly , curious if Gen 2 spec will create parity as far as oil recipe / content ?
 
What is this calcium hype all about? People are running high Ca application in their DI and boosted cars with no issues!!! PLease someone enlighten me
 
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Originally Posted By: parshisa
What is this calcium hype all about? People are running high Ca application in their DI and boosted cars with no issues!!! PLease someone enlighten me
I used to get LSPI in a 5 year old DI engine, and I'll bet you if I was able to put in an oil that replaced most of the Ca detergents with Mg detergents, it might not have happened.
Its not hype. Infineum ran a lot of tests and found that Ca and Na makes LSPI worse. ZDDP and moly reduces LSPI slightly. Less LSPI if using POE or some other types of esters in your base oil too. Other factors to be sure, yet the idea is to not let the motor oil make it worse.
 
Valvoline is noted for its sodium add pack. I'll be curious to see what changes they made to conform to dexos Gen2.
 
Ok, if that was the case and Ca is really a killer and promotes LSPI so badly, how does this Amsoil oil still exists (they are not the only ones with high Ca but let’s use them as an example)?? All the engines with their SS would be in a junk yard by now. My buddy has a shop for GTR’s and all he uses for them is AMSOIL SS, no issues whatsoever. And those cars are boosted as fawk. 0 engine failures. There are certain conditions have to be met for the LSPI occur - high boost low speed. Why in the [censored] would someone floor it in the 6th gear? Common sense it is, common sense.
 
Not every car using high Ca oils suffered/will suffer from LSPI but enough have. Some threshold must have been crossed in order to worry the industry as has happened. This is a real concern. If you'd like, search on bitog for the various threads that include a multitude of links covering the topic. Papers from:

Chevron Ornite
Infineum
The SAE
Lubrizol

and others.
 
papers and multiple research articles are definitely a good source of information. although, I tend to read these articles with shovel of salt. so far, what I've read doesn't really say much. too many details are unknown. also, real life examples are the ones that I want to hear about and haven't heard of many. again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist BUT I personally doubt that oil is the major contributor to the issue. Just my opinion, not trying to disprove anything or convince anyone.
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
papers and multiple research articles are definitely a good source of information. although, I tend to read these articles with shovel of salt. so far, what I've read doesn't really say much. too many details are unknown. also, real life examples are the ones that I want to hear about and haven't heard of many. again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist BUT I personally doubt that oil is the major contributor to the issue. Just my opinion, not trying to disprove anything or convince anyone.


Whether Calcium is a major contributor or lesser contributor, there's obviously industry concern about the issue and I don't doubt that the application and driving style might effect it as much as the calcium level. Given that GF-6 has a specific component that acknowledges and addresses LSPI, I would certainly think that this has been a replicated finding in testing whether it ever effects your vehicle or not.

"Real life" tends to be too anecdotal on a board like this ( especially one where enough members think they're rebels for not buying a turbo DI vehicle ) so my takeaway is that there's a definable issue where research into its prevalence and impact is on going along with ways to mitigate it. Maybe that's the way to look at it.
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Ok, if that was the case and Ca is really a killer and promotes LSPI so badly, how does this Amsoil oil still exists (they are not the only ones with high Ca but let’s use them as an example)?? All the engines with their SS would be in a junk yard by now. My buddy has a shop for GTR’s and all he uses for them is AMSOIL SS, no issues whatsoever. And those cars are boosted as fawk. 0 engine failures. There are certain conditions have to be met for the LSPI occur - high boost low speed. Why in the [censored] would someone floor it in the 6th gear? Common sense it is, common sense.

Those aren't direct injected, though, if I recall correctly. And, of course, even among forced induction direct injection engines, things are always application dependent.
 
...and in addition to Garak's last post, it's also a low-displacement-turbo-GDi issue. The GTR is not a low displacement application.
 
Right on folks, i’ll Take it back on GTR. Brain farts happen
 
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Originally Posted By: parshisa
Ok, if that was the case and Ca is really a killer and promotes LSPI so badly, how does this Amsoil oil still exists (they are not the only ones with high Ca but let’s use them as an example)?? All the engines with their SS would be in a junk yard by now. My buddy has a shop for GTR’s and all he uses for them is AMSOIL SS, no issues whatsoever. And those cars are boosted as fawk. 0 engine failures. There are certain conditions have to be met for the LSPI occur - high boost low speed. Why in the [censored] would someone floor it in the 6th gear? Common sense it is, common sense.


Even Amsoil has accepted that LSPI is a major concern and recently announced that the relevant grades of their SS line have been reformulated to pass the dexos1 Gen 2 LSPI test (they go on to claim that all of the SS oils tested had zero LSPI events in their tests while a maximum of 5 is allowed). They are not actually Gen 2 licensed oils and Amsoil makes it clear that their sulfated ash contents are too high for that standard.
We won't get any clues about what changes Amsoil made until we see some VOAs, and even those won't necessarily tell the whole story, but I suspect it's possible that a high Ca oil could pass the Gen 2 LSPI test if it has lots of ZDDP (typical for their previous SS oils) and moly and doesn't have any sodium detergents (which they did not use before).
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Right on folks, i’ll Take it back on GTR. Brain farts happen

That's fine; whatever gets us thinking. Related, there are some newer Infiniti direct injection forced induction options that aren't specifying anything very interesting for motor oil. Are they having no issue, or just being overly optimistic or naive?
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Right on folks, i’ll Take it back on GTR. Brain farts happen


I've had my share as well.
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About this discussion about which engines do LSPI and which ones don't: Its also a function of piston design and how often the engine tries to lug. Engines in some cars aren't trying to lug and get the most MPG.
 
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
About this discussion about which engines do LSPI and which ones don't: Its also a function of piston design and how often the engine tries to lug. Engines in some cars aren't trying to lug and get the most MPG.




Exactly. We had a nice long thread on this same subject a few weeks back. Being taught at a younger age to never lug the engine it's sometimes harder not to do on modern vehicles as ofm mentions. You can tell the engine is lugging just by sense but the knock sensors and such keep the noise down. I'm convinced that lugging is a primary cause of LSPI.
 
Originally Posted By: parshisa
papers and multiple research articles are definitely a good source of information. although, I tend to read these articles with shovel of salt. so far, what I've read doesn't really say much. too many details are unknown. also, real life examples are the ones that I want to hear about and haven't heard of many. again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist BUT I personally doubt that oil is the major contributor to the issue. Just my opinion, not trying to disprove anything or convince anyone.


Hmmm, why pay attention to companies with labs, engineers, scientists and money. I want anecdotes from people with none of those things
crazy.gif
.
 
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