Recent Topics
How much is too much?
by Sealbilly
06/18/18 09:34 PM
Correct oil filter for a Vovlo S60, 2003
by earthworm
06/18/18 09:17 PM
Prestone coolant $3.50 Target YMMV
by pda1122
06/18/18 09:13 PM
Need Windows 7 Pro ISO
by MONKEYMAN
06/18/18 08:33 PM
PEAK Full Synthetic -- Anyone Try It ??
by johnnyz73
06/18/18 07:40 PM
Why high resale value on Jeeps if frames rust out?
by Vern_in_IL
06/18/18 06:48 PM
Wearever Silver Semi-Metallic Brake Pads- Break In
by ET16
06/18/18 06:37 PM
Where to Buy Motul Oil in Stores?
by Hot_Ajax
06/18/18 06:13 PM
2011 Chevy equinox overheating
by hardcore302
06/18/18 06:00 PM
Are my rotors warped?
by Dylan1303
06/18/18 05:44 PM
Ultimate Fast Finish on sale at CDN tire.
by irv
06/18/18 05:23 PM
96 Civic 5w20 Castrol GTX Ultraclean UOA
by researcher
06/18/18 04:52 PM
VOA Castrol Magnatec D1G2, 5w30
by researcher
06/18/18 04:38 PM
Unused dented silicone Fram PH8316 cut open
by slacktide_bitog
06/18/18 04:28 PM
Same grade with differing low start temps
by mjoekingz28
06/18/18 04:24 PM
Self defense
by Camprunner
06/18/18 03:13 PM
Any apple experts here?
by maverickfhs
06/18/18 02:50 PM
Cost-no-object 75W-90 GL-5 for a differential?
by d00df00d
06/18/18 02:34 PM
Pittsburgh Dad, this guy is a trip
by Rat407
06/18/18 02:06 PM
14 Jeep GC 5.7, PP 5w20 & 0w20
by Vigg
06/18/18 01:52 PM
Newest Members
JustaDude, 3horseman, Firedog45, WtsTacoma01, Orion62
65265 Registered Users
Who's Online
93 registered (69Torino, andyd, 87sammy, 2strokeNorthstar, 1998CamryCE, 4WD, 10 invisible), 1572 Guests and 42 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65265 Members
67 Forums
285546 Topics
4765509 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4535962 - 10/07/17 07:34 AM DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ?
ChrisD46 Offline


Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 1895
Loc: GA.
Based on above title , will new DEXOS1 Gen 2 PP still be able to claim __% cleaner thsn M1 ? ... For GDI engines I have stayed away from PP due to the high calcium content. I will be curious to see a VOA of the new Gen 2 oil from PP (SOPUS synthetics have a high calcium content in general) . Lastly , curious if Gen 2 spec will create parity as far as oil recipe / content ?
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata 2.4L GDI 4 cylinder
2010 Hyundai Elantra 2.0L 4 cylinder
2007 Kia Sedona 3.8L 6 cylinder

Top
#4535970 - 10/07/17 07:43 AM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Calcium isn't the only way to skin the cat, as it were.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4536219 - 10/07/17 01:07 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 526
Loc: TX
What is this calcium hype all about? People are running high Ca application in their DI and boosted cars with no issues!!! PLease someone enlighten me


Edited by parshisa (10/07/17 01:13 PM)
_________________________
2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30

Top
#4536376 - 10/07/17 05:21 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: parshisa]
oil_film_movies Online   content


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2549
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: parshisa
What is this calcium hype all about? People are running high Ca application in their DI and boosted cars with no issues!!! PLease someone enlighten me
I used to get LSPI in a 5 year old DI engine, and I'll bet you if I was able to put in an oil that replaced most of the Ca detergents with Mg detergents, it might not have happened.
Its not hype. Infineum ran a lot of tests and found that Ca and Na makes LSPI worse. ZDDP and moly reduces LSPI slightly. Less LSPI if using POE or some other types of esters in your base oil too. Other factors to be sure, yet the idea is to not let the motor oil make it worse.

Top
#4536378 - 10/07/17 05:28 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: oil_film_movies]
PimTac Online   content


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4232
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Valvoline is noted for its sodium add pack. I'll be curious to see what changes they made to conform to dexos Gen2.
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


Top
#4536400 - 10/07/17 06:01 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
4WD Online   confused


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 6363
Loc: Texas
Marketing claims whatever they think you can get away with ...

Top
#4536638 - 10/07/17 10:57 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: oil_film_movies]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 526
Loc: TX
Ok, if that was the case and Ca is really a killer and promotes LSPI so badly, how does this Amsoil oil still exists (they are not the only ones with high Ca but letís use them as an example)?? All the engines with their SS would be in a junk yard by now. My buddy has a shop for GTRís and all he uses for them is AMSOIL SS, no issues whatsoever. And those cars are boosted as fawk. 0 engine failures. There are certain conditions have to be met for the LSPI occur - high boost low speed. Why in the [censored] would someone floor it in the 6th gear? Common sense it is, common sense.
_________________________
2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30

Top
#4536851 - 10/08/17 07:53 AM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8861
Loc: Southeast Florida
Not every car using high Ca oils suffered/will suffer from LSPI but enough have. Some threshold must have been crossed in order to worry the industry as has happened. This is a real concern. If you'd like, search on bitog for the various threads that include a multitude of links covering the topic. Papers from:

Chevron Ornite
Infineum
The SAE
Lubrizol

and others.
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T

Top
#4536952 - 10/08/17 09:49 AM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
PimTac Online   content


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4232
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
The Chevron Oronite paper that wemay spoke of is a very good source of info regarding LSPI.


https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


Top
#4537112 - 10/08/17 12:41 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 526
Loc: TX
papers and multiple research articles are definitely a good source of information. although, I tend to read these articles with shovel of salt. so far, what I've read doesn't really say much. too many details are unknown. also, real life examples are the ones that I want to hear about and haven't heard of many. again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist BUT I personally doubt that oil is the major contributor to the issue. Just my opinion, not trying to disprove anything or convince anyone.
_________________________
2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30

Top
#4537154 - 10/08/17 01:16 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: parshisa]
Vuflanovsky Offline


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 1164
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: parshisa
papers and multiple research articles are definitely a good source of information. although, I tend to read these articles with shovel of salt. so far, what I've read doesn't really say much. too many details are unknown. also, real life examples are the ones that I want to hear about and haven't heard of many. again, I'm not saying it doesn't exist BUT I personally doubt that oil is the major contributor to the issue. Just my opinion, not trying to disprove anything or convince anyone.


Whether Calcium is a major contributor or lesser contributor, there's obviously industry concern about the issue and I don't doubt that the application and driving style might effect it as much as the calcium level. Given that GF-6 has a specific component that acknowledges and addresses LSPI, I would certainly think that this has been a replicated finding in testing whether it ever effects your vehicle or not.

"Real life" tends to be too anecdotal on a board like this ( especially one where enough members think they're rebels for not buying a turbo DI vehicle ) so my takeaway is that there's a definable issue where research into its prevalence and impact is on going along with ways to mitigate it. Maybe that's the way to look at it.

Top
#4537194 - 10/08/17 01:53 PM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: parshisa]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24574
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Ok, if that was the case and Ca is really a killer and promotes LSPI so badly, how does this Amsoil oil still exists (they are not the only ones with high Ca but letís use them as an example)?? All the engines with their SS would be in a junk yard by now. My buddy has a shop for GTRís and all he uses for them is AMSOIL SS, no issues whatsoever. And those cars are boosted as fawk. 0 engine failures. There are certain conditions have to be met for the LSPI occur - high boost low speed. Why in the [censored] would someone floor it in the 6th gear? Common sense it is, common sense.

Those aren't direct injected, though, if I recall correctly. And, of course, even among forced induction direct injection engines, things are always application dependent.
_________________________
Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515

Top
#4537690 - 10/09/17 06:55 AM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8861
Loc: Southeast Florida
...and in addition to Garak's last post, it's also a low-displacement-turbo-GDi issue. The GTR is not a low displacement application.
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T

Top
#4537696 - 10/09/17 07:01 AM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: ChrisD46]
parshisa Offline


Registered: 05/21/17
Posts: 526
Loc: TX
Right on folks, iíll Take it back on GTR. Brain farts happen


Edited by parshisa (10/09/17 07:01 AM)
_________________________
2016 Honda Pilot 3.5V6 PP 0W20
2017 Honda Civic 1.5T Amsoil SS 5W30

Top
#4537699 - 10/09/17 07:04 AM Re: DEXOS 1 Gen 2 PP : Still Cleaner than M1 ? [Re: parshisa]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3966
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: parshisa
Ok, if that was the case and Ca is really a killer and promotes LSPI so badly, how does this Amsoil oil still exists (they are not the only ones with high Ca but letís use them as an example)?? All the engines with their SS would be in a junk yard by now. My buddy has a shop for GTRís and all he uses for them is AMSOIL SS, no issues whatsoever. And those cars are boosted as fawk. 0 engine failures. There are certain conditions have to be met for the LSPI occur - high boost low speed. Why in the [censored] would someone floor it in the 6th gear? Common sense it is, common sense.


Even Amsoil has accepted that LSPI is a major concern and recently announced that the relevant grades of their SS line have been reformulated to pass the dexos1 Gen 2 LSPI test (they go on to claim that all of the SS oils tested had zero LSPI events in their tests while a maximum of 5 is allowed). They are not actually Gen 2 licensed oils and Amsoil makes it clear that their sulfated ash contents are too high for that standard.
We won't get any clues about what changes Amsoil made until we see some VOAs, and even those won't necessarily tell the whole story, but I suspect it's possible that a high Ca oil could pass the Gen 2 LSPI test if it has lots of ZDDP (typical for their previous SS oils) and moly and doesn't have any sodium detergents (which they did not use before).
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >