AR chambered in .45

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Has anyone heard an AR fired in .45 cal? I have been told due to the subsonic round that it can be fired without hearing protection. With less muzzle flash and sound , might be a good close quarters house rife?
 
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
I have been told due to the subsonic round that it can be fired without hearing protection.


Stop listening to that person about anything.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Has anyone heard an AR fired in .45 cal? I have been told due to the subsonic round that it can be fired without hearing protection. With less muzzle flash and sound , might be a good close quarters house rife?


I shoot a subsonic target practice round in my 1911 about 850 fps trust me you aren't going to shoot it with out ear protection. With a suppressor you could shoot it without ear protection.
 
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Has anyone heard an AR fired in .45 cal? I have been told due to the subsonic round that it can be fired without hearing protection. With less muzzle flash and sound , might be a good close quarters house rife?


I'm not a fan of pistol caliber carbines, but use whatever you feel comfortable with. That said, it will still rattle your cage in close quarters.
 
Originally Posted By: ATex7239


I'm not a fan of pistol caliber carbines, but use whatever you feel comfortable with. That said, it will still rattle your cage in close quarters.


I have an AR chambered in 7.62 x 39. It might be a bit much inside! I was just curious about other subsonic calibers.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Has anyone heard an AR fired in .45 cal? I have been told due to the subsonic round that it can be fired without hearing protection. With less muzzle flash and sound , might be a good close quarters house rife?


It can be done.. not sure if you can just go buy one that's ready to go.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/15-345390/?


A better option, if these are still produced, would be a Beretta CX4 in 45 ACP (or any similar pistol caliber).

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod....45+ACP+8+round
 
I don't think that noise and muzzle flash receives enough respect when a weapon might be fired indoors. When I was a Navy Corpsman working in the ER at Balboa Hospital in San Diego in the 60's a woman fired a 357 magnum in the treatment room at her husband. The lighting was dimmed and the muzzle flash blinded me and the noise was deafening. It was absolute chaos with people diving for cover or trying to grab the woman. The noise cleared the whole waiting room and we ended up treating a dozen or more people with injuries even though the bullet itself only hit a cabinet and punched a hole in the wall. This was nothing like the depiction of an indoor shooting as seen on TV or in a movie.
 
I used to own the Beretta carbine in .45ACP and I can confirm that it is much quieter than probably any gun I ever shot. I even had people comment on how quiet it was when at the range.

That gun has been discontinued. I sold it because it only had 8 rd magazines. I traded it for a 9mm model that accepts 20 and 30 rd magazines.

As for a 45ACP AR rifle, I would consider it a toy and not a serious use home defense gun.

There are some decent 45ACP carbines, but they are expensive. Like the HK USC carbine. Or Kriss Vector. The High points generally work if on a budget.
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Has anyone heard an AR fired in .45 cal? I have been told due to the subsonic round that it can be fired without hearing protection. With less muzzle flash and sound , might be a good close quarters house rife?


The bullet may be subsonic the the muzzle gas isn't.

As stated previously, you need a subsonic bullet with a suppressor to get down to hearing safe levels.

Pistol cal carbines have enough compromises that I wouldn't recommend one as a primary bump in the night tool. You'd be much better served by a compact rifle or shotgun.

BSW
 
Originally Posted By: bsmithwins
Pistol cal carbines have enough compromises that I wouldn't recommend one as a primary bump in the night tool. You'd be much better served by a compact rifle or shotgun.


Lets be honest. A Beretta CX4 9MM carbine with a 30 rd magazine is a fantastic home defense gun. Its better than ANY pistol.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Lets be honest. A Beretta CX4 9MM carbine with a 30 rd magazine is a fantastic home defense gun. Its better than ANY pistol.


How so? It's a bigger, more cumbersome platform that shoots the same identical cartridge.
 
I currently have the use of a High Point 45 Carbine. It's pretty loud. I suppose you could fire it outside without ear protection, and your ears won't ring for weeks, only hours. It certainly does not have that ear shattering pressure of a 45 pistol. But in no way is it quiet.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Lets be honest. A Beretta CX4 9MM carbine with a 30 rd magazine is a fantastic home defense gun. Its better than ANY pistol.


How so? It's a bigger, more cumbersome platform that shoots the same identical cartridge.


I have a CX4 Storm in 9mm. I've never run it across a chronograph, but the longer bbl will give a bit more speed. How much? I have no idea. That said, and as much as I like it as a fun gun, the trigger (even after being worked) on the Storm is, shall we say, only slightly less than atrocious.

The debate will always rage about carbine vs. pistol for home defense. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Penetration; over penetration. Sight radius. Lighting tools and where mounted.

It's like most any tool guys. There is no "perfect" one-size-fits-all tool. There are ones that make the most sense in some situations, but there's never a singular right "one" for "all" situations.


PS ... where'd you fine a 30 rnd mag for the 9mm Storm? I have a couple of the 20 rounds, but never seen a 30 round. Me likey and me Want!
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Lets be honest. A Beretta CX4 9MM carbine with a 30 rd magazine is a fantastic home defense gun. Its better than ANY pistol.


How so? It's a bigger, more cumbersome platform that shoots the same identical cartridge.


Its WAY more accurate than a pistol, with quicker follow up shots, less recoil, and the extra barrel length gives you approximately .357 Sig power levels.

The reason why many experts recommend a long gun for home defense over a pistol is because its more accurate, and more powerful, which still applies to a pistol caliber carbine vs pistol.

Watch this guys excellent review. Especially him shooting a man size target at 4:20, and how accurate it is. And the water can vs hollow point demonstration at 6:52.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWO-JNwKCMI&t=
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
PS ... where'd you fine a 30 rnd mag for the 9mm Storm? I have a couple of the 20 rounds, but never seen a 30 round. Me likey and me Want!


The 9MM Beretta storm carbines can use PX4 magazines, or 92FS magazines, depending on which magazine insert you have. If your gun takes PX4 magazines, you can buy the 92FS magazine insert and 92FS magazine release button, and you can then use 92FS magazines. They sell 20 rd and 30 rd 92FS magazines.

http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-cx4-magazine-insert-for-px4-series-not-45acp-/c5c620/
http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-92fs-and-cx4-magazine-9mm-30-rds/c89282/
http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-cx4-storm-magazine-release-92-96-series/c89109/
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Its WAY more accurate than a pistol, with quicker follow up shots, less recoil, and the extra barrel length gives you approximately .357 Sig power levels.


I'm just not seeing any of that as much, if any advantage in the confines of a average size house. Where you are going to engage at 25' or less. Another thing is most of this high performance 9 MM self defense pistol ammunition, is designed to be driven at the specific velocities that are produced in pistol length barrels. Not rifle barrels. The powder burn rates are set up for handguns... Not rifles.

If a person cannot achieve consistent hits with a pistol on a silhouette size target, at 25' or less with good night sights, they've got no business using one in the first place. It's not that hard to do with some basic practice. If you feel a 9 MM pistol with good ammunition is of questionable power for home defense, a carbine in the same caliber isn't going to improve it much, if any. If you feel you need the power a rifle provides, that's fine. No argument there. But carry one in a rifle caliber. .223, .300 Blackout, or whatever. At least then you are gaining enough from a ballistic standpoint to make it worth the effort. And even then, if you're not going to feel safe unless you have the power and accuracy you feel a long gun provides, carry a short barreled shotgun and be done with it.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
I'm just not seeing any of that as much, if any advantage in the confines of a average size house. Where you are going to engage at 25' or less.


Accuracy is accuracy. Increased energy, is increased energy. Long gun in sufficient caliber beats pistol in sufficient caliber. Period.

Originally Posted By: billt460
Another thing is most of this high performance 9 MM self defense pistol ammunition, is designed to be driven at the specific velocities that are produced in pistol length barrels. Not rifle barrels. The powder burn rates are set up for handguns... Not rifles.


Out of a long gun, you get additional velocity, which creates faster hollow point expansion, and larger hollow point expansion. As such, a bonded Speer Gold dot 124+P out of a rifle length barrel will probably penetrate 12 inches instead of 14 inches it attains out of a pistol. A non-bonded bullet such as Federal 9BPLE, which is known for fragmenting, will fragment more violently.

Originally Posted By: billt460
If a person cannot achieve consistent hits with a pistol on a silhouette size target, at 25' or less with good night sights, they've got no business using one in the first place. It's not that hard to do with some basic practice.


From all my time I spend on the range, Ive noticed some trends. I can honestly say that at least 75% of the shooting public have no idea what they are doing with a handgun. Wrong grip, bad technique, bad skills, terrible accuracy, limp wristing, can't quickly clear jams, it goes on and on and on. Shooting a stationary paper target is not good training for a defensive encounter. And bad guys dont sit still and tend to move and run.

Originally Posted By: billt460
If you feel a 9 MM pistol with good ammunition is of questionable power for home defense, a carbine in the same caliber isn't going to improve it much, if any. If you feel you need the power a rifle provides, that's fine. No argument there. But carry one in a rifle caliber. .223, .300 Blackout, or whatever. At least then you are gaining enough from a ballistic standpoint to make it worth the effort. And even then, if you're not going to feel safe unless you have the power and accuracy you feel a long gun provides, carry a short barreled shotgun and be done with it.


I own a Beretta carbine and an AR15. I keep the AR15 next to the bed. I certainly feel a .223 carbine is more effective than a 9MM carbine for home defense. BUT. A person is MUCH more likely to get accurate hits with a long gun. One guesstimate I saw was that 90% of long gun rounds fired hit their human target, compared to 25-30% of pistol rounds. I can honestly say, with authority, that a 9MM Beretta carbine is a MUCH better home defense gun than any pistol.

I have a lot of training in this arena. And I cannot and will not recommend a pistol for PRIMARY home defense. Secondary, bump in the night, give to the wife while she is on 911, sure. But not for PRIMARY home defense use.

So like I said earlier, "Lets be honest. A Beretta CX4 9MM carbine with a 30 rd magazine is a fantastic home defense gun. Its better than ANY pistol. "
 
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