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Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 #4534696
10/05/17 03:27 PM
10/05/17 03:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL



Last edited by wemay; 10/05/17 03:29 PM.

'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD: Mobil Super Synthetic 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4534723
10/05/17 04:02 PM
10/05/17 04:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Thanks for posting.

Two questions:

1) With the proliferation of DI/TGDI engines and resulting fuel dilution, why are reformulated oils becoming "thInner" at operating temperature? Can't imagine this is a consequence of the Dexos1 Gen2 requirements.

2) As an 0w-20 presumably requires better base stocks than a 5w-20, why is the Noack volatility of 0w-20 so much higher than the 5w-20?

As an 0w-20 user, I'll pass.

Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4534745
10/05/17 04:28 PM
10/05/17 04:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.


2014 Forester XT, 86000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4534762
10/05/17 04:44 PM
10/05/17 04:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.



My thoughts on that as well.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD: Mobil Super Synthetic 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4534765
10/05/17 04:46 PM
10/05/17 04:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Danh Offline
Danh  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,781
.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.


Guess that's my point: why would Valvoline formulate its 5w-30 @ 10.2 when Mobil chooses 11.7? In DI/TGDI applications the Valvoline product is a lot more likely to dilute to a 20-weight. The Valvoline/Mobil gap is narrower in 20 weights but still significant: 8.2 vs 8.7 cSt.

Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4534770
10/05/17 04:55 PM
10/05/17 04:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
I wish Valvoline supplied HTHS numbers and M1, Noack. Can't have everything i guess.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD: Mobil Super Synthetic 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4534841
10/05/17 06:30 PM
10/05/17 06:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
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Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Originally Posted By: wemay
I wish Valvoline supplied HTHS numbers and M1, Noack.


That is exactly what I wish for, then you can compare products. Still I would happily use any of the big names SynPower, M1, Edge, SOPUS (PP, SHU).

These new SynPowers all look good. They all carry good TBN (9.3), good zinc (830 ppm) and the same SA (0.97 %). In terms or Noack volatility the 5W20 ( 7.6 %) and 10W30 (8.0 %) are both fairly low. The 5W30 wins on specs being both Dexos1-Gen2 and Euro A5/B5, and it's Noack of 9.3% is still under 10% which would do me fine.

Thanks for posting.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: Danh] #4534847
10/05/17 06:36 PM
10/05/17 06:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.


Guess that's my point: why would Valvoline formulate its 5w-30 @ 10.2 when Mobil chooses 11.7? In DI/TGDI applications the Valvoline product is a lot more likely to dilute to a 20-weight. The Valvoline/Mobil gap is narrower in 20 weights but still significant: 8.2 vs 8.7 cSt.


Quote:
M1 5W30 AP, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0,

The way I see it, any oil that has a higher KV100 but a lower HTHS is probably heavily loaded with VII's and more prone to shear and probably has a higher Noack.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: SR5] #4534928
10/05/17 08:27 PM
10/05/17 08:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,024
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,024
Virginia
I bet you are correct in that SR5. Always great to see you on here.

Thank you Wemay for this information here. You are a true good help on here. Always good to see you on here too.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Quaker State High Mileage 5w30 Purolator Boss 14610
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4535147
10/06/17 06:17 AM
10/06/17 06:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 542
NE Ohio
knerml Offline
knerml  Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 542
NE Ohio
wemay,

Noticed you are using Synpower on your Sonata and Synpower Maxlife on your Santa Fe Turbo.

Why not use the same type of oil, other than viscosity, in both?

Also, why Fram over OEM filters?

I maintain 4 Kias and Hyundais with variations of these engines, and just looking for others' insights.

Thanks.


2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W20 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T Castrol Edge 5W40 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4535175
10/06/17 06:58 AM
10/06/17 06:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
Hi knerml,

https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/compare-motor-oil

According to Valvoline (see link above), "Valvoline Full Synthetic w/Maxlife Technology" is supposed to be their top flight option. But I'll use either. Valvoline also happens to be my favorite brand. They've always been prompt at answering questions via phone or email so they still earn my $ even when a little more expensive. Mobil1 has been good at this too.

I've now owned four Hyundai myself, never had an oil filter issue (weird noises or rattling as described in some TSBs) using aftermarket brands. But i still use OEM as well.


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD: Mobil Super Synthetic 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4535177
10/06/17 06:59 AM
10/06/17 06:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,413
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,413
Soviet State of Washington
According to PQIA, NOACK for Valvoline Synpower 0w-20 was 11.6. That was March of this year and pre Gen2 though.

I would also like to find out wemay' reasoning for running those oils especially the TGDI.


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4535198
10/06/17 07:55 AM
10/06/17 07:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 542
NE Ohio
knerml Offline
knerml  Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 542
NE Ohio
Originally Posted By: wemay

I've now owned four Hyundai myself, never had an oil filter issue (weird noises or rattling as described in some TSBs) using aftermarket brands. But i still use OEM as well.


I think the noise issue is mainly from the 6 cylinder engines.


2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W20 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T Castrol Edge 5W40 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay] #4537588
10/08/17 10:48 PM
10/08/17 10:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,413
Soviet State of Washington
PimTac Online content
PimTac  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 5,413
Soviet State of Washington
Quick question on this; I was comparing the new PDS for Synpower 0w-20 against the old one. The KV40 is now 42.2 and the kv100 is 8.1. The old numbers were kv40 47. and kv100 8.8. This seems like a big change. Other numbers have also changed like the pour point which is now -39c versus the older pp of -45c.

What does this all add up to for a lay person? A thinner oil?


2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter

Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: SR5] #4540875
10/12/17 06:22 AM
10/12/17 06:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,366
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: wemay
I wish Valvoline supplied HTHS numbers and M1, Noack.


That is exactly what I wish for, then you can compare products. Still I would happily use any of the big names SynPower, M1, Edge, SOPUS (PP, SHU).

These new SynPowers all look good. They all carry good TBN (9.3), good zinc (830 ppm) and the same SA (0.97 %). In terms or Noack volatility the 5W20 ( 7.6 %) and 10W30 (8.0 %) are both fairly low. The 5W30 wins on specs being both Dexos1-Gen2 and Euro A5/B5, and it's Noack of 9.3% is still under 10% which would do me fine.

Thanks for posting.


+1


'18 KIA Sportage LX AWD: Mobil Super Synthetic 10w30
'13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: EDGE 5w30

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