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#4534696 - 10/05/17 03:27 PM Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida




Edited by wemay (10/05/17 03:29 PM)
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4534723 - 10/05/17 04:02 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1750
Loc: .
Thanks for posting.

Two questions:

1) With the proliferation of DI/TGDI engines and resulting fuel dilution, why are reformulated oils becoming "thInner" at operating temperature? Can't imagine this is a consequence of the Dexos1 Gen2 requirements.

2) As an 0w-20 presumably requires better base stocks than a 5w-20, why is the Noack volatility of 0w-20 so much higher than the 5w-20?

As an 0w-20 user, I'll pass.

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#4534745 - 10/05/17 04:28 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
Virtus_Probi Offline


Registered: 06/25/15
Posts: 3970
Loc: New England
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.
_________________________
2014 Forester XT, 80500 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W30 d1G2
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#4534762 - 10/05/17 04:44 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: Virtus_Probi]
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.



My thoughts on that as well.
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4534765 - 10/05/17 04:46 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: Virtus_Probi]
Danh Offline


Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1750
Loc: .
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.


Guess that's my point: why would Valvoline formulate its 5w-30 @ 10.2 when Mobil chooses 11.7? In DI/TGDI applications the Valvoline product is a lot more likely to dilute to a 20-weight. The Valvoline/Mobil gap is narrower in 20 weights but still significant: 8.2 vs 8.7 cSt.

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#4534770 - 10/05/17 04:55 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida
I wish Valvoline supplied HTHS numbers and M1, Noack. Can't have everything i guess.
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4534841 - 10/05/17 06:30 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: wemay
I wish Valvoline supplied HTHS numbers and M1, Noack.


That is exactly what I wish for, then you can compare products. Still I would happily use any of the big names SynPower, M1, Edge, SOPUS (PP, SHU).

These new SynPowers all look good. They all carry good TBN (9.3), good zinc (830 ppm) and the same SA (0.97 %). In terms or Noack volatility the 5W20 ( 7.6 %) and 10W30 (8.0 %) are both fairly low. The 5W30 wins on specs being both Dexos1-Gen2 and Euro A5/B5, and it's Noack of 9.3% is still under 10% which would do me fine.

Thanks for posting.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4534847 - 10/05/17 06:36 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: Danh]
SR5 Online   content


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4463
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
M1 5W30 AP has a Gen 2 license # and is quite thick at 100C for a 5W30, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0, though.

As for 0W20 vs. 5W20, I'd guess the former has more VIIs and/or pour point depressants that contribute to a higher NOACK loss. I would welcome a formulator correcting me on that if I'm full of it.


Guess that's my point: why would Valvoline formulate its 5w-30 @ 10.2 when Mobil chooses 11.7? In DI/TGDI applications the Valvoline product is a lot more likely to dilute to a 20-weight. The Valvoline/Mobil gap is narrower in 20 weights but still significant: 8.2 vs 8.7 cSt.


Quote:
M1 5W30 AP, 11.7cSt...HTHS is only 3.0,

The way I see it, any oil that has a higher KV100 but a lower HTHS is probably heavily loaded with VII's and more prone to shear and probably has a higher Noack.
_________________________
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#4534928 - 10/05/17 08:27 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: SR5]
bbhero Offline


Registered: 03/20/15
Posts: 4627
Loc: Virginia
I bet you are correct in that SR5. Always great to see you on here.

Thank you Wemay for this information here. You are a true good help on here. Always good to see you on here too.
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"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."

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#4535147 - 10/06/17 06:17 AM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
knerml Offline


Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 480
Loc: NE Ohio
wemay,

Noticed you are using Synpower on your Sonata and Synpower Maxlife on your Santa Fe Turbo.

Why not use the same type of oil, other than viscosity, in both?

Also, why Fram over OEM filters?

I maintain 4 Kias and Hyundais with variations of these engines, and just looking for others' insights.

Thanks.
_________________________
2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W20 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T GDI Castrol Edge 5W40 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter

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#4535175 - 10/06/17 06:58 AM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida
Hi knerml,

https://www.valvoline.com/our-products/compare-motor-oil

According to Valvoline (see link above), "Valvoline Full Synthetic w/Maxlife Technology" is supposed to be their top flight option. But I'll use either. Valvoline also happens to be my favorite brand. They've always been prompt at answering questions via phone or email so they still earn my $ even when a little more expensive. Mobil1 has been good at this too.

I've now owned four Hyundai myself, never had an oil filter issue (weird noises or rattling as described in some TSBs) using aftermarket brands. But i still use OEM as well.
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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#4535177 - 10/06/17 06:59 AM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4298
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
According to PQIA, NOACK for Valvoline Synpower 0w-20 was 11.6. That was March of this year and pre Gen2 though.

I would also like to find out wemay' reasoning for running those oils especially the TGDI.
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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#4535198 - 10/06/17 07:55 AM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
knerml Offline


Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 480
Loc: NE Ohio
Originally Posted By: wemay

I've now owned four Hyundai myself, never had an oil filter issue (weird noises or rattling as described in some TSBs) using aftermarket brands. But i still use OEM as well.


I think the noise issue is mainly from the 6 cylinder engines.
_________________________
2015 Hyundai Elantra Sport 2.0 GDI Mobil 1 5W20 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T GDI Castrol Edge 5W40 & OEM/Mann W811/80 Filter

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#4537588 - 10/08/17 10:48 PM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: wemay]
PimTac Offline


Registered: 03/04/17
Posts: 4298
Loc: Soviet State of Washington
Quick question on this; I was comparing the new PDS for Synpower 0w-20 against the old one. The KV40 is now 42.2 and the kv100 is 8.1. The old numbers were kv40 47. and kv100 8.8. This seems like a big change. Other numbers have also changed like the pour point which is now -39c versus the older pp of -45c.

What does this all add up to for a lay person? A thinner oil?
_________________________
2017 Mazda CX-5 Grand Touring

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20
Mobil 1 M108A EP filter


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#4540875 - 10/12/17 06:22 AM Re: Valvoline SynPower Dexos1 Gen2 PDS - 9/22/17 [Re: SR5]
wemay Online   happy


Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 8885
Loc: Southeast Florida
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: wemay
I wish Valvoline supplied HTHS numbers and M1, Noack.


That is exactly what I wish for, then you can compare products. Still I would happily use any of the big names SynPower, M1, Edge, SOPUS (PP, SHU).

These new SynPowers all look good. They all carry good TBN (9.3), good zinc (830 ppm) and the same SA (0.97 %). In terms or Noack volatility the 5W20 ( 7.6 %) and 10W30 (8.0 %) are both fairly low. The 5W30 wins on specs being both Dexos1-Gen2 and Euro A5/B5, and it's Noack of 9.3% is still under 10% which would do me fine.

Thanks for posting.


+1
_________________________
2017 Hyundai Sonata Sport 2.4L
2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T
Valvoline

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