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Big rigs and buses with flat tires? #4533787
10/04/17 11:29 AM
10/04/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,639
California
nthach Offline OP
nthach  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,639
California
I was walking to the office and I heard a rumbling noise up the street and burning rubber. It was a MCI D4500 commuter bus like the ones used in NY/NJ and it had a flat. The tires were all-steel Goodyear transit-spec ones. From what I've read and seen about these MCIs, the rear axle is a steerable tag axle and can be "unloaded". The flat happened on the tag axle.

In case a drive axle or a tag/tandem axle tire on a big rig or bus fails, can the driver proceed to safety, or it depends on loading and other factors? Is that also why retreads aren't allowed on the steer axle of a passenger bus as a margin of safety?

Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: nthach] #4533835
10/04/17 12:08 PM
10/04/17 12:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,058
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,058
Buffalo, NY
I know in the case of the tanker trucks my company runs, the drivers are required to pull off and have the tire changed. Most of our newer stuff uses super single tires instead of tandems. 10 wheeler as opposed to 18. You're done when they let loose.

Last edited by JTK; 10/04/17 12:09 PM.

2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: nthach] #4533878
10/04/17 12:33 PM
10/04/17 12:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,046
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,046
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
You dont want to drive on a flat. If it comes apart it will come up through the floor of the bus,truck or trailer. It can also tear the brake hoses off which makes the brakes come on and your stuck. Not going to move with the spring brakes on!


02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
87 F250 traveler 15w40
07 fjcruiser Chevron 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am maveric edge 5w40
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Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: nthach] #4533960
10/04/17 02:11 PM
10/04/17 02:11 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
We are supposed to stop and get the flat tire changed. I haven't had too many flats/blowouts over the years, but I have always tried to get to an exit ramp to minimize the chances of getting hit by speeding vehicles passing by. If an exit is too far away, then I have to stop on the shoulder (put the reflective triangles out) and pray that nobody hits the truck or the person(s) changing the tire. It's a bad situation, doesn't matter what you drive.

In over 3 million miles, I've had several blowouts. That includes a couple of nearly new (less than 50k miles) tires. I'm very handy with a tire gauge, but if you run over a nail or something else that punctures a tire, it's going to overheat and possibly let go.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 104k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: nthach] #4534001
10/04/17 03:07 PM
10/04/17 03:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,146
iowa
Traction Offline
Traction  Offline
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,146
iowa
Since all passenger vehicles are required to have tire pressure monitoring systems, on a big rig that would really be much more useful, since there are 18 tires to have a problem versus 4. Besides safety, it would save a lot of big tires. Plus advance warning to get off to a truck stop to repair/replace it, instead of being stuck on the side of the road with a destroyed tire.

Last edited by Traction; 10/04/17 03:18 PM.

Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
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Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: Traction] #4534013
10/04/17 03:22 PM
10/04/17 03:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 303
NM, USA
pkunk Offline
pkunk  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 303
NM, USA
Common on many trucks today. I have this on my motorhome & my toad. https://tsttruck.com/product/tst-507sce-kit/
Originally Posted By: Traction
Since all passenger vehicles are required to have tire pressure monitoring systems, on a big rig that would really be much more useful, since there are 18 tires to have a problem versus 4. Besides safety, it would save a lot of big tires. Plus advance warning to get off to a truck stop to repair/replace it, instead of being stuck on the side of the road with a destroyed tire.


8200 ft elevation in the Sangre de Cristos
2008 Mini Cooper Clubman (toad)
2000 Mercedes ML320
1994 Dodge 2500 Cummins
1999 Ford F53 V10 Coachman Motorhome 34ft
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: nthach] #4534033
10/04/17 03:51 PM
10/04/17 03:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,224
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,224
Port Orange, Florida
I drove tri-axle coal truck for 13 years and it happens.
You don't even worry about the tag axle ( AKA lift axle) where you usually run junk tires anyway. The drive tires, if you have a flat outside you usually won't go loaded before you blow out the inside. You can usually limp in loaded with a inside flat. Empty it won't hurt a thing. They weigh 13 ton empty and single dual supports that.
Re-caps are made for straight running. Turning tears them off. I know a company that ran super single re- treads on the front. Seemed dangerous but only one ever blew out.
Took the entire fender with it.
Surprisingly when a front tire blows on Tri-axles it doesn't do much, only sets down slowly. It's a keep your cool moment.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: JTK] #4534598
10/05/17 12:17 PM
10/05/17 12:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,639
California
nthach Offline OP
nthach  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,639
California
Originally Posted By: JTK
I know in the case of the tanker trucks my company runs, the drivers are required to pull off and have the tire changed. Most of our newer stuff uses super single tires instead of tandems. 10 wheeler as opposed to 18. You're done when they let loose.

I always wondered about that, I ride through the ports and I see trucks with Michelin XOnes or Bridgestone Greatecs(usually part of fleets, I haven't seen the small owner-operators with these). Is the rationale behind them fuel savings via less weight and better traction with a wider tire?

Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: Panzerman] #4534604
10/05/17 12:22 PM
10/05/17 12:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,639
California
nthach Offline OP
nthach  Offline OP
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,639
California
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I drove tri-axle coal truck for 13 years and it happens.
You don't even worry about the tag axle ( AKA lift axle) where you usually run junk tires anyway. The drive tires, if you have a flat outside you usually won't go loaded before you blow out the inside. You can usually limp in loaded with a inside flat. Empty it won't hurt a thing. They weigh 13 ton empty and single dual supports that.

When I saw the bus pull over to drop off passengers, I've heard the ABS actuate as the system controller thought it was an event that triggered it.

It was 1.5 miles from the operator's San Francisco day yard, so I assumed the driver was either able to make it there or made it to the next stop and ping dispatch to send a mechanic out there. I'm not sure if they keep spare tires behind the front bumper - most tour/commute coaches have a provision for one.

Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: nthach] #4535792
10/06/17 08:50 PM
10/06/17 08:50 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: JTK
I know in the case of the tanker trucks my company runs, the drivers are required to pull off and have the tire changed. Most of our newer stuff uses super single tires instead of tandems. 10 wheeler as opposed to 18. You're done when they let loose.

I always wondered about that, I ride through the ports and I see trucks with Michelin XOnes or Bridgestone Greatecs(usually part of fleets, I haven't seen the small owner-operators with these). Is the rationale behind them fuel savings via less weight and better traction with a wider tire?


I converted to Michelin XOne tires sometime in 2006 and ran them for about ten years. I weighed my truck before and after, and found that I shaved off 450 lbs. This was switching from 8 drive tires on aluminum wheels to 4 wide base tires on aluminum.

It may not seem like a big deal to drop 450 lbs off a heavy truck, but it really does help out if you are often loaded to the legal limit. The wide base ("super singles") tires offer less rolling resistance and therefore better fuel economy.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 104k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: dustyroads] #4535890
10/07/17 01:24 AM
10/07/17 01:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,757
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,757
Western S.C.
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
... The wide base ("super singles") tires offer less rolling resistance and therefore better fuel economy.
How do they compare with conventional duals in cornering capabilities and stability? I think about that when large trucks running way over the speed limit pass me in the curves of the last 20 miles of I-40 in western North Carolina.

Last edited by CR94; 10/07/17 01:25 AM.

2011 Toyota Prius now at 95K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: CR94] #4535954
10/07/17 06:17 AM
10/07/17 06:17 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,880
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,880
Texas
There are a number of oilfield service companies around here. When I think about it ... they have run the “body load” 10 wheelers for decades with the jumbo tires only on the front.
They don’t carry cargo ... just always full weight with pumps, engines, tanks, and thick wall pipe.

Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: CR94] #4535971
10/07/17 06:44 AM
10/07/17 06:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,507
Somewhere in the US
CapriRacer Offline
CapriRacer  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,507
Somewhere in the US
Originally Posted By: CR94
How do they compare with conventional duals in cornering capabilities and stability? I think about that when large trucks running way over the speed limit pass me in the curves of the last 20 miles of I-40 in western North Carolina.


First I think you are right to be concerned about fully loaded trucks driving down that stretch of highway. I get concerned about my ability to control MY car on that highway.

But a super single has about the same amount of rubber on the road as a pair of duals, but 2 less sidewalls - and you can adjust the sidewall stiffness so the change is largely imperceptible.


CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: CR94] #4536032
10/07/17 08:10 AM
10/07/17 08:10 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
... The wide base ("super singles") tires offer less rolling resistance and therefore better fuel economy.
How do they compare with conventional duals in cornering capabilities and stability? I think about that when large trucks running way over the speed limit pass me in the curves of the last 20 miles of I-40 in western North Carolina.


The wide base tires are fantastic in regards to handling and stability. They improve the ride, too. I guess having fewer sidewalls is what helps soften the ride.

Another thing that I loved (I am running traditional duals on my newest truck) about the singles, was the ease of "chaining up". I not only put chains on (when required) in the mountains out west, but also when trying to get to my house in the winter. The big singles make it easy and quick.

Driving through the gorge there in western N.C. requires patience. The speed limit is fine even with a heavy load and high center of gravity, but there's always a backup caused by someone who is inexperienced or just nervous. Many of the trucks are empty or lightly loaded and they pull out and pass the slower traffic. They're not supposed to, but they do. A truck will comfortably glide through that gorge when heavy, so for someone pulling an empty trailer it's probably very frustrating. I always find myself stuck in a convoy going 35-40 mph through there, but I just relax and enjoy the ride as best as I can.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 104k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
Re: Big rigs and buses with flat tires? [Re: Traction] #4536041
10/07/17 08:21 AM
10/07/17 08:21 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,131
upstate NY
Originally Posted By: Traction
Since all passenger vehicles are required to have tire pressure monitoring systems, on a big rig that would really be much more useful, since there are 18 tires to have a problem versus 4. Besides safety, it would save a lot of big tires. Plus advance warning to get off to a truck stop to repair/replace it, instead of being stuck on the side of the road with a destroyed tire.


While TPMS isn't required on heavy trucks, there are aftermarket products in use. Automatic inflation systems are also available. I pull a trailer with the auto inflation system and there's a light that is supposed to come on if there's a problem.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 104k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Fram 10575
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