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Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock #4529887
09/29/17 09:18 PM
09/29/17 09:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
http://www.infineuminsight.com/insight/jun-2017/lspi-and-lubricant-auto-ignition

Detergent chemistry
The effect of calcium and magnesium based detergents on LSPI has already been the subject of Infineum studies. Calcium-based detergents have been shown to strongly promote LSPI while magnesium-based detergents appeared to have nearly no effect on LSPI. However, various calcium and magnesium concentrations have been observed to have no statistically measurable difference in the IQT for gaseous fuel/oil/air auto-ignition.

Peroxide was mixed with oil in order to focus the IQT auto-ignition study on the branching and the propagation chain of the combustion process. This addition of peroxide increased the reactivity but again showed no sensitivity to calcium or magnesium content. These results seem to indicate that the calcium does not play a role either in the initiation or the branching chemistry reactions of the oil auto-ignition in the gaseous phase.

Base stock selection
The largest impact on auto-ignition measured with the IQT came as a result of the general chemical composition of the base stock. In this test, different quality base stocks were added to the fuel samples.



Base stock choice has a significant impact on auto-ignition

The IQT tests highlighted that the propensity for auto-ignition increased from Group I to Group IV. We also noted that some Group V formulations are very resistant to auto-ignition (no auto-ignition promotion effect compared to pure fuel), which may be interesting for LSPI-resistant formulations.

Conclusions
LSPI is an extremely complex phenomenon including multiple intricate couplings, combustion being only one of these elements. However, many questions remain unanswered, in particular why calcium has an LSPI-promoting effect while magnesium does not. Perhaps further modification of the IQT to allow solid-phase auto-ignition (auto-ignition catalysed by a solid deposit) may help to answer this question.

Meanwhile, this experiment has enabled us to better understand the role of the base stock in LSPI mechanisms. Depending on the specific engine operating conditions and the type of LSPI, base stock selection could be a significant factor in the formulation of LSPI-resistant lubricants.



Not the first study I've read suggesting Grpll and lll being better than GrplV at keeping LSPI at bay. Sounds like a good case for synthetic blends (i.e., Ford's Motorcraft recommendation for some Ecoboost). This is a perplexing issue indeed.


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688

Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4529900
09/29/17 09:31 PM
09/29/17 09:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,577
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,577
Idaho
Many gp III oils are Dexos 1 second generation approved.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: CT8] #4529907
09/29/17 09:41 PM
09/29/17 09:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: CT8
Many gp III oils are Dexos 1 second generation approved.


Yup, some even marketed as blends before all is said and done. Just like many Gen 1 dexos oils.


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688

Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4529915
09/29/17 09:55 PM
09/29/17 09:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,410
Virginia
bbhero Online content
bbhero  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,410
Virginia
Very true indeed. I wonder though because Pennzoil Platinum still has a fair amount of calcium in it. I wonder if SOPUS has figured out something in regards to this problem.


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Mobil Super 5w30 Wix 57356
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4529940
09/29/17 10:59 PM
09/29/17 10:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
If you'll notice thought, chart wise, Groups II, III, and IV are fairly close together. The Group V, which is very diverse, is the one that really stands out. A blend of an ester and a Group II Plus, might be the best base stock.

Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: bigj_16] #4529987
09/30/17 04:46 AM
09/30/17 04:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
If you'll notice thought, chart wise, Groups II, III, and IV are fairly close together. The Group V, which is very diverse, is the one that really stands out. A blend of an ester and a Group II Plus, might be the best base stock.


Something with lots of Ester maybe?


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688

Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4530220
09/30/17 11:21 AM
09/30/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 484
burlington ,ontario, canada
ndfergy Offline
ndfergy  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 484
burlington ,ontario, canada
Then there's this from Afton Chemical:



Here's a blurb from Oronite that suggests, although doesn't state, that higher groups are better:



My takeaway from all this: Cui Bono, Cui Bono, Cui Bono.


2015 Toyota Yaris 5spd Manual
Summer: Mobil Super 1000 10w30
Winter: Mobil Super 1000 5w30
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Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4530680
09/30/17 09:05 PM
09/30/17 09:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688

Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4530691
09/30/17 09:22 PM
09/30/17 09:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
The above graph is from a PDF file titled...

"Considerations on Carbon Deposit
Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection
Engine"

Not a direct correlation to LSPI, but still compares base stocks in relation to GDi IVD.


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688

Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4530731
09/30/17 10:15 PM
09/30/17 10:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 484
burlington ,ontario, canada
ndfergy Offline
ndfergy  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 484
burlington ,ontario, canada
Originally Posted By: wemay
The above graph is from a PDF file titled...

"Considerations on Carbon Deposit
Formation in Gasoline Direct Injection
Engine"

Not a direct correlation to LSPI, but still compares base stocks in relation to GDi IVD.


You're preaching to the choir. I was pointing out misinformation, or more disturbingly, disinformation, sometimes has an agenda. Hence, qui bono - who benefits. Or more aptly, don't kill the Golden Goose. Since the Infineum study is the most recent, I don't disagree.


2015 Toyota Yaris 5spd Manual
Summer: Mobil Super 1000 10w30
Winter: Mobil Super 1000 5w30
OEM Filter
Re: Infineum International Limited / LSPI + base stock [Re: wemay] #4530836
10/01/17 03:02 AM
10/01/17 03:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline OP
wemay  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,830
Kendall, FL
approved thumbsup


18 Sportage 2.4L AWD: Mobil1 Annual Protection 5W20 + Mobil1-104A
13 Santa Fe Sport 2.0T: Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30 + FRAM XG9688


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