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#4529297 - 09/29/17 10:52 AM 9 years behind the times.
redbone3 Online   content


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 655
Loc: Reno, NV
Today, I learned that President Bush signed a law in 2008 allowing veterans to salute the flag or salute during the national anthem. As a 20 year veteran, I should have learned that in 2008!
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#4529308 - 09/29/17 11:04 AM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3]
bullwinkle Online   confused


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 7668
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
That's why I was somewhat surprised that Pittsburgh Steeler Alejandro Villanueva was not saluting during the anthem before their game with the Bears. Ex-Army Ranger, playing in a stadium that was NAMED after all US military killed in combat (Soldier Field)-I'm not much of a Steelers fan, but I would be PROUD to wear his jersey!
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#4529314 - 09/29/17 11:09 AM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: bullwinkle]
redbone3 Online   content


Registered: 06/09/12
Posts: 655
Loc: Reno, NV
It is now allowed for a veteran to salute. Not required. Hand over heart is entirely acceptable.

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#4529315 - 09/29/17 11:10 AM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3]
bdcardinal Online   content


Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 10992
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Yup the track announcer at NASCAR races says "please remove your hats and place your hands over your hearts. Veterans may render a hand salute" before the anthem. They show it before every race on TV. Noticed the NFL rarely shows the anthem pre-game. I saw it on the first game of the year and the London game.
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#4529321 - 09/29/17 11:19 AM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: bullwinkle]
Al Offline


Registered: 06/08/02
Posts: 18035
Loc: Elizabethtown, Pa
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
That's why I was somewhat surprised that Pittsburgh Steeler Alejandro Villanueva was not saluting during the anthem before their game with the Bears. Ex-Army Ranger, playing in a stadium that was NAMED after all US military killed in combat (Soldier Field)-I'm not much of a Steelers fan, but I would be PROUD to wear his jersey!


Steeler Fans will be boycotting the game on Veterans Day. Hope its successful.
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#4529337 - 09/29/17 11:29 AM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3]
WillsYoda Offline


Registered: 10/17/15
Posts: 471
Loc: MN
It is sad that Americans are getting so partisan over this. Kneeling is also a respectful gesture, and should be allowed as well.

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#4529338 - 09/29/17 11:29 AM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3]
Bottom_Feeder Online   content


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3010
Loc: Occupied Virginia
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Today, I learned that President Bush signed a law in 2008 allowing veterans to salute the flag or salute during the national anthem. As a 20 year veteran, I should have learned that in 2008!

Why did there need to be a law to allow that in the first place? Who/what was stopping them?

Not being snarky. I genuinely don't understand that there was an issue that this law addressed.

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#4529340 - 09/29/17 11:30 AM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: ron17571]
Bottom_Feeder Online   content


Registered: 12/07/08
Posts: 3010
Loc: Occupied Virginia
Originally Posted By: ron17571
Amazed Obama didn't end that order.

Nice job being 'that guy'.

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#4529366 - 09/29/17 12:04 PM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Bottom_Feeder]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8536
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Today, I learned that President Bush signed a law in 2008 allowing veterans to salute the flag or salute during the national anthem. As a 20 year veteran, I should have learned that in 2008!

Why did there need to be a law to allow that in the first place? Who/what was stopping them?

Not being snarky. I genuinely don't understand that there was an issue that this law addressed.


Because the law up to that point did NOT allow veterans to salute. The prior law (regulation, actually) was:

1. Only uniformed members of the military could render the salute.
2. Military members not in uniform stand at attention.

Veterans were considered civilians, and the respectful gesture was hand over the heart.

If a veteran was saluting, then, while it may have been intended to be respectful, it was incorrect.
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#4529367 - 09/29/17 12:05 PM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: WillsYoda]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8536
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
It is sad that Americans are getting so partisan over this. Kneeling is also a respectful gesture, and should be allowed as well.


Let me guess...zero time in uniform?
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#4529372 - 09/29/17 12:10 PM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Astro14]
Kira Offline


Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 5238
Loc: Champlain/Hudson Valley
"Let me guess...zero time in uniform?" The ultimate hall pass for judging other people's patriotism.

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#4529380 - 09/29/17 12:29 PM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Kira]
madRiver Offline


Registered: 07/11/15
Posts: 3537
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Kira
"Let me guess...zero time in uniform?" The ultimate hall pass for judging other people's patriotism.


So many nations military, leader and government forces “patriotism”. Shall we join?

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#4529382 - 09/29/17 12:30 PM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Al]
LoneRanger Offline


Registered: 07/02/07
Posts: 4058
Loc: Midwest USA
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
That's why I was somewhat surprised that Pittsburgh Steeler Alejandro Villanueva was not saluting during the anthem before their game with the Bears. Ex-Army Ranger, playing in a stadium that was NAMED after all US military killed in combat (Soldier Field)-I'm not much of a Steelers fan, but I would be PROUD to wear his jersey!


Steeler Fans will be boycotting the game on Veterans Day. Hope its successful.


+1, hoping the stands are near empty.
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#4529383 - 09/29/17 12:31 PM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Kira]
Astro14 Offline


Registered: 10/10/10
Posts: 8536
Loc: Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: Kira
"Let me guess...zero time in uniform?" The ultimate hall pass for judging other people's patriotism.


No.

Not patriotism.

Understanding. That's what time in uniform would've imparted. To you, too, had you served.

Kneeling is most certainly not respectful. It is a deliberate, considered, refusal to be respectful. When appropriate, a ship, or soldier, will render honors. One renders honors to the flag, via a salute, ships render honors to other ships, via manning the rails, to admirals, or kings, or presidents, via a firing of a gun salute. Rendering honors is formal, deliberate, and meaningful IF you're aware of the traditions. That's why it's done for veterans' funerals (21 gun salute).

The traditions go back hundreds of years, but saluting, standing at attention, or hand over the heart, are how an individual renders honors to the flag. A sign of respect.

Refusing to render honors is a lot like refusing to shake an extended hand. A deliberately rude gesture intended to disrespect the occasion.

A snub.

So, yeah, the players are being deliberately disrespectful to the flag. And they know it.

Period.

Let me make it even more simple: if kneeling were respectful, then Kaepernick wouldn't have chosen to kneel as his form of protest.


Edited by Astro14 (09/29/17 12:39 PM)
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#4529386 - 09/29/17 12:36 PM Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3]
Ethan1 Offline


Registered: 12/29/14
Posts: 1632
Loc: 'murica
inb4 thread lock LOL

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