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9 years behind the times. #4529297
09/29/17 09:52 AM
09/29/17 09:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
redbone3 Offline OP
redbone3  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
Today, I learned that President Bush signed a law in 2008 allowing veterans to salute the flag or salute during the national anthem. As a 20 year veteran, I should have learned that in 2008!


2014 Passat Wolfsburg, 1995 Miata.
Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3] #4529308
09/29/17 10:04 AM
09/29/17 10:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,326
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,326
Cincinnati, OH, USA
That's why I was somewhat surprised that Pittsburgh Steeler Alejandro Villanueva was not saluting during the anthem before their game with the Bears. Ex-Army Ranger, playing in a stadium that was NAMED after all US military killed in combat (Soldier Field)-I'm not much of a Steelers fan, but I would be PROUD to wear his jersey!


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Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: bullwinkle] #4529314
09/29/17 10:09 AM
09/29/17 10:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
redbone3 Offline OP
redbone3  Offline OP
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 694
Reno, NV
It is now allowed for a veteran to salute. Not required. Hand over heart is entirely acceptable.

Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3] #4529315
09/29/17 10:10 AM
09/29/17 10:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,619
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,619
Santa Barbara, CA
Yup the track announcer at NASCAR races says "please remove your hats and place your hands over your hearts. Veterans may render a hand salute" before the anthem. They show it before every race on TV. Noticed the NFL rarely shows the anthem pre-game. I saw it on the first game of the year and the London game.


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Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: bullwinkle] #4529321
09/29/17 10:19 AM
09/29/17 10:19 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,283
Elizabethtown, Pa
Al Offline
Al  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,283
Elizabethtown, Pa
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
That's why I was somewhat surprised that Pittsburgh Steeler Alejandro Villanueva was not saluting during the anthem before their game with the Bears. Ex-Army Ranger, playing in a stadium that was NAMED after all US military killed in combat (Soldier Field)-I'm not much of a Steelers fan, but I would be PROUD to wear his jersey!


Steeler Fans will be boycotting the game on Veterans Day. Hope its successful.


Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3] #4529337
09/29/17 10:29 AM
09/29/17 10:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 476
MN
WillsYoda Offline
WillsYoda  Offline
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 476
MN
It is sad that Americans are getting so partisan over this. Kneeling is also a respectful gesture, and should be allowed as well.

Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3] #4529338
09/29/17 10:29 AM
09/29/17 10:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,116
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,116
Occupied Virginia
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Today, I learned that President Bush signed a law in 2008 allowing veterans to salute the flag or salute during the national anthem. As a 20 year veteran, I should have learned that in 2008!

Why did there need to be a law to allow that in the first place? Who/what was stopping them?

Not being snarky. I genuinely don't understand that there was an issue that this law addressed.

Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: ron17571] #4529340
09/29/17 10:30 AM
09/29/17 10:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,116
Occupied Virginia
Bottom_Feeder Offline
Bottom_Feeder  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,116
Occupied Virginia
Originally Posted By: ron17571
Amazed Obama didn't end that order.

Nice job being 'that guy'.

Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Bottom_Feeder] #4529366
09/29/17 11:04 AM
09/29/17 11:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,126
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,126
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
Originally Posted By: redbone3
Today, I learned that President Bush signed a law in 2008 allowing veterans to salute the flag or salute during the national anthem. As a 20 year veteran, I should have learned that in 2008!

Why did there need to be a law to allow that in the first place? Who/what was stopping them?

Not being snarky. I genuinely don't understand that there was an issue that this law addressed.


Because the law up to that point did NOT allow veterans to salute. The prior law (regulation, actually) was:

1. Only uniformed members of the military could render the salute.
2. Military members not in uniform stand at attention.

Veterans were considered civilians, and the respectful gesture was hand over the heart.

If a veteran was saluting, then, while it may have been intended to be respectful, it was incorrect.


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Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: WillsYoda] #4529367
09/29/17 11:05 AM
09/29/17 11:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,126
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,126
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: WillsYoda
It is sad that Americans are getting so partisan over this. Kneeling is also a respectful gesture, and should be allowed as well.


Let me guess...zero time in uniform?


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Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Astro14] #4529372
09/29/17 11:10 AM
09/29/17 11:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,940
Champlain/Hudson Valley
"Let me guess...zero time in uniform?" The ultimate hall pass for judging other people's patriotism.

Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Kira] #4529380
09/29/17 11:29 AM
09/29/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,030
New England
madRiver Offline
madRiver  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,030
New England
Originally Posted By: Kira
"Let me guess...zero time in uniform?" The ultimate hall pass for judging other people's patriotism.


So many nations military, leader and government forces “patriotism”. Shall we join?

Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Al] #4529382
09/29/17 11:30 AM
09/29/17 11:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,340
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline
LoneRanger  Offline
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,340
Midwest USA
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
That's why I was somewhat surprised that Pittsburgh Steeler Alejandro Villanueva was not saluting during the anthem before their game with the Bears. Ex-Army Ranger, playing in a stadium that was NAMED after all US military killed in combat (Soldier Field)-I'm not much of a Steelers fan, but I would be PROUD to wear his jersey!


Steeler Fans will be boycotting the game on Veterans Day. Hope its successful.


+1, hoping the stands are near empty.



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Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: Kira] #4529383
09/29/17 11:31 AM
09/29/17 11:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,126
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Offline
Astro14  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,126
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: Kira
"Let me guess...zero time in uniform?" The ultimate hall pass for judging other people's patriotism.


No.

Not patriotism.

Understanding. That's what time in uniform would've imparted. To you, too, had you served.

Kneeling is most certainly not respectful. It is a deliberate, considered, refusal to be respectful. When appropriate, a ship, or soldier, will render honors. One renders honors to the flag, via a salute, ships render honors to other ships, via manning the rails, to admirals, or kings, or presidents, via a firing of a gun salute. Rendering honors is formal, deliberate, and meaningful IF you're aware of the traditions. That's why it's done for veterans' funerals (21 gun salute).

The traditions go back hundreds of years, but saluting, standing at attention, or hand over the heart, are how an individual renders honors to the flag. A sign of respect.

Refusing to render honors is a lot like refusing to shake an extended hand. A deliberately rude gesture intended to disrespect the occasion.

A snub.

So, yeah, the players are being deliberately disrespectful to the flag. And they know it.

Period.

Let me make it even more simple: if kneeling were respectful, then Kaepernick wouldn't have chosen to kneel as his form of protest.

Last edited by Astro14; 09/29/17 11:39 AM.

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Re: 9 years behind the times. [Re: redbone3] #4529386
09/29/17 11:36 AM
09/29/17 11:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,684
'murica
Ethan1 Offline
Ethan1  Offline
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,684
'murica
inb4 thread lock LOL

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