Just thinking how employment has changed....

[Vern_in_IL]

So much has changed on how you move up in a company. My Dad got into the tool room through UAW apprenticeship program, and he also got his brother in law in the tool room by recommendation. If a company needed workers, they would post in the local and regional paper the open position. The positions were very local and companies were willing to train people at their jobs.

Now here I'm at work, and a fellow co-worker previously had 5 years experience in tool center operation working on jet engines, his position opens at our company, seven of them, he applies and is out-qualified and gets none of the positions, not used to reading digital prints but believes he can pick it up quick.

Yeah he has only two years of seniority, and is working in assembly but, I have to just think, if this was 1990, or 1970, he would have that job. No doubt about it.

But now, he competes with applicants on three different websites and even though he is qualified for that job, and is bonded with our company, he simply cannot advance in his career, even with internal recommendations.

and all he did was move from the NE to the Midwest and ruined his career.

 

[Mr Nice]

He needs to keep applying for other jobs. A phone call from the right person can and will open many doors of opportunity.

Maybe he can find a job working for an industrial company like: Boeing, Caterpillar, GE, Siemens, etc.. ?

 

[skyactiv]

My wife is a senior bussiness analyst. She works for a firm that gets hired to improve a businesses productivity and other aspects. What she sees and tells me is unreal. Companies expect to hire skilled people out of thin air
when there is little to no job specific training for the task at hand in vocational school or college. A lot of businesses don't wanna spend any time nor money training an employee at an apprenticeship level. She has seen jobs leave the U.S.
due to unrealistic expectations employers have.

 

[AZjeff]

Some companies will fill internally first even if it takes some training, others want someone who can step in and do the job. Should you coworker have gotten himself up to speed on digital prints beforehand if that was his weakness? Agree things ain't how they used to be but it's on us to know the lay of the land and play the game as it exists.

 

[ATex7239]

Companies only want employees who can provide instant profits; just add water.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
So much has changed on how you move up in a company. My Dad got into the tool room through UAW apprenticeship program, and he also got his brother in law in the tool room by recommendation. If a company needed workers, they would post in the local and regional paper the open position. The positions were very local and companies were willing to train people at their jobs.

Now here I'm at work, and a fellow co-worker previously had 5 years experience in tool center operation working on jet engines, his position opens at our company, seven of them, he applies and is out-qualified and gets none of the positions, not used to reading digital prints but believes he can pick it up quick.

Yeah he has only two years of seniority, and is working in assembly but, I have to just think, if this was 1990, or 1970, he would have that job. No doubt about it.

But now, he competes with applicants on three different websites and even though he is qualified for that job, and is bonded with our company, he simply cannot advance in his career, even with internal recommendations.

and all he did was move from the NE to the Midwest and ruined his career.


The uaw isn't what it used to be. In my experience working in a uaw plant in a skilled trades position the uaw puts no value on skilled labor. Most companies don't want to pay for a well rounded skilled person. They want someone with specific experience in what they have and don't care if you can adapt your skills to their operation.

 

[Arkandspark]

I work for a small electrical contractor and have for 23 years now. I started as the lowest paid apprentice at the shop and now I'm the highest paid employee and have been for many years now. I'm not special I just kept my head down and came in everyday. It seems like the workforce in America changed about 15 years ago. Back then we had people that wanted to be in charge of a job, people didn't mind responsibility. I don't see people striving for success the way I did when I was in my 20's.

 

[Chris142]

When I started in the auto repair business I had no idea that I would have to be an electrition. I hate electrical problems with a passion.

 

[sparky123]

Unless you have a strong, in demand skill set, employment (for a decent wage) is not what it used to be. Many have to work 2-3 jobs because "full time" positions are not being offered. Many don't want to pay their dues and work their way up. I just don't understand the mindset of the company I work for...the turnover rate is very high. Train new people and in the beginning give them 20-25 hrs. (Part-time) Then in a month, only 10-16 hrs. and expect these new hires to stick it out? I'm glad to be retiring soon.

 

[bigj_16]

If you think the employment process is the same as it was 10 years ago, much less 15-20 years ago. you are sadly mistaken. HR runs the show. Even a lot of smaller companies use outside HR firms. Unless you can get through HR, you will never have contact with the person you would be working for.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I moved to Kentucky earlier this year. People in Colorado warned me that the pay sucks here, standard of living poorer, yada yada.

I walked into a small business in Louisville that does the same work I used to, walked right out with a job. Pay was lower, but I busted my [censored] for about 4 weeks, then talked to a company down the road who wanted to hire me for more.

Put in my two weeks notice, day later the owner approached me asking me to stay if he matched other company pay plus an additional few grand a year. Free medical with almost no deductible, plus other benefits, couldn't turn it down. Now I make 10k more a year with MUCH better benefits than I was in CO.

At 18, I started in the trade at literally the bottom of the rung making peanuts. I'm a believer that you aren't handed opportunities, you work hard, learn if that's what it takes, and earn them.

 

[AZjeff]

I share your work experience and work ethic but am of the opinion that those opportunities are fewer now than BITD. Wife and I moved from Pa to Az in 2005 and had NO problem landing good jobs as employers here value the east coast work ethic.

 

[Dave9]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
I moved to Kentucky earlier this year...
At 18, I started in the trade at literally the bottom of the rung making peanuts. I'm a believer that you aren't handed opportunities, you work hard, learn if that's what it takes, and earn them.


That's not necessarily proof of much except that if you are willing to live in a less desirable area, "most" skilled workers will have less competition. Plenty of people work hard and don't get as lucky. Funny how some people ignore the luck factor and want to claim they earned things when they didn't work any harder than anyone else.

92saturnsl2, I am NOT referring to you, but what you wrote reminds me of one of the laziest friends I have that said something similar once and then I realized his concept of hard work was that whatever he was doing was hard work because he was doing it. He doesn't even like to go camping because that's "too much work", lol.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

It is still possible to land a good job with hard work and some decision making. A lot more people seem to have the deserve it attitude and if they don't get what ever job get mad and quit. I had no clue I would end up where I am but it worked out. I just took work as it came and tried to find a better job while working at whatever job in the meantime. Never think a job is below you when you have no job. Just do it until you find something better. The system sucks, always has and always will. "It's a big club and you aint in it" Just accept it and do the best you can.

 

[Colt45ws]

Many companies would rather have high turnover from low pay and/or low hours than keep employees long term because they've done the math and it costs less for them to do that.
On the other hand you have companies that want someone with tons of experience they can slide right into their position and get productivity from with minimal training. I know, Ive looked at a ton of job opportunities.
Then you have bizzare interviewing practices. I took an interview last year where instead of asking typical questions, I could tell they were asking questions written by a Sell-out Shrink. Try to get into your head and figure out how you think.
Im already nervous during a job interview, so these questions caught me off guard and I didnt have a good answer for some of them.
Not surprisingly, they didnt call me back. But they sent me a letter 6 months later informing me I didnt make the cut. (How sad) I hope they fill their factory with nincompoops.

After that I turned to a temp agency where I finally got a job I think I can make headway in. Thing about temp agencies is Ive noticed they tend to throw people at a problem until the right one sticks. I contacted them Thurs. Got a call Fri morning 7am. Emails were exchanged, information was entered into websites and by 11am I had a job the following Monday at 9am. No interviews, no bee sss. Walked in the door Monday morning and went right to work.
3 months later the company hired me full time. 9 months after that (a few weeks ago) I got my first promotion to Tech 1. Thinking I can make Tech 2 before end of '18 if they can get rid of the idiot Tech 3 they just hired and bump our Tech 2 into the 3 position that he deserves.

 

[Mr Nice]

2strokeNorthstar,
Good post and good attitude to have. I say the exact same thing to younger folks that expect a great paying job with little effort.



Companies still invest in their employees for training and improving their skill set / education. Any employee at any job has to ask themselves what training/skills do I need to further my job prospects, salary and career path. Some don't want to pursue the necessary requirements for the next promotion but complain about the lack of job opportunities for them. In today's economy you definitely need to set yourself apart from all the other job applicants.

Sometimes I post job openings here on BITOG..... but these jobs require a minimum level of training / education to even be considered for a job interview. The company does spend (invest) a ton of money training employees, so nobody can complain why their skills are lacking for next job opportunity. Definitely good paying jobs are out there, I never understood why some people say all the good jobs dried up and only low paid part-time jobs are available.

 

[fdcg27]

There was a time when companies preferred to promote from within simply because in doing so they knew what they were getting.
This also showed loyalty to the workforce and the workers would return that loyalty to their employer.
Today, we have more of a cutthroat system and workers are expected to show up for a job well trained at their own expense and are also expected to jump ship for better terms and conditions as they gain experience.
Who you know does matter and a phone call to someone you've networked with can bring opportunities that would not otherwise appear. There are good positions out there and part of getting one is knowing someone in the hiring company who has the credibility to put in a word on one's behalf.
Another point is that a good portion of the jobs posted on the various sites are from HR/temp firms and not actual employers and a large portion of them seem to be phantom positions posted only to add users to the available pool for real positions that may later appear that match an applicant's skill set.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
My wife is a senior bussiness analyst. She works for a firm that gets hired to improve a businesses productivity and other aspects. What she sees and tells me is unreal. Companies expect to hire skilled people out of thin air
when there is little to no job specific training for the task at hand in vocational school or college. A lot of businesses don't wanna spend any time nor money training an employee at an apprenticeship level. She has seen jobs leave the U.S.
due to unrealistic expectations employers have.


This is it, 100%.

Companies do not want to invest in good employees anymore. The example the OP gave is a good one. The guy who starts at the bottom, and works his way up is invested in the company. He is likely to stay and work hard, learning as he goes and becoming an investment to the firm.

I saw it all the time at my previous job. Instead of hiring people from within, who knew the environment, the company would hire outside people who were "qualified". They would later find out that these people were unfit for the job and need to get rid of them, or those people would move on to something else. The company eventually turns into a revolving door for employees.

My theory is that this is why so many companies are mismanaged. It isn't that the management staff are necessarily good, they have just managed to stick around the longest.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice

Definitely good paying jobs are out there, I never understood why some people say all the good jobs dried up and only low paid part-time jobs are available.



I agree with this statement, but it is not true everywhere. Hard work and experience are definitely important, but it is on a whole different level than in years past. I mainly blame the college level arena where they have specific degrees for everything now.

One of my friends recently went for an entry level HR job. He has a 4 year degree in Psychology, and has 6 years of experience in a few different jobs working in NYC where he managed employees and did administrative work.

He was interviewed by 2 HR managers and a director. All of them said they started out in another field, one was previously a secretary with no college experience, another had an English degree, and the director had started out at the company from the bottom and worked her way up. He wasn't considered for the job because he did not have a bachelor's degree in HR management or 5-6 years experience in an HR position at another company. This was for an entry level $35,000 per year job.

I fail to understand why entry level jobs that pay below $20/hr require 5-6 years experience in the same job previously, or need a degree in that specific field. That is not entry level.

 

[fdcg27]

Too many companies are run by financial engineers rather than real engineers.
What works on paper often fails in the real world.