Inverter generators: Honda EU2000i vs Yam EF2000is

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Even author of that blog has mentioned that he has bought a Honda generator for his wifes A/C unit
smile.gif
 
Since there is no built in hour meter best guess was about 800 hours or about 8 seasons before the belt started fraying and loosing tension.

lifespan is load based- IF they are just idling or at half load or so, I'd imagine they can run crazy hours, but under a commercial type load they will not endure. They are not as bulletproof as their reputation would insinuate.


Case in point while fighting with an aging generac in a dog grooming van I set up a twin honda 2K on a hitch mount under a managed but high load scenario and when used 8 hour a day at medium to high loads within a months time or a hair over the 200 hour lash interval it had moved so much that the valve stop seating and burned the valve necessitating a valve replacement.

Good for camping and recreation use - sure - good for a high load commercial environment run full tilt day in and day out - nope.

There is a guy online that claims he's gotten 30K from a Yamaha Ef3000 - if so another amazing run.


UD
 
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"after 2014 are "made in China"....and its QC has dropped significantly...."

Not certain if the Chinese built Yamaha units are that bad. I would likely believe that quality has or will suffer compared to Japanese built machines. Despite drop in quality compared to Japanese units, a Chinese Yamaha will likely be superior to Chinese home products.

Not much difference between that and Japanese cars built in North America vs. vehicles built in Japan. Japanese vehicle built in North American plants are no where near as well built as those built in Japan. I know. I own Toyotas built in both countries. The Japanese vehicles we've owned are, without a doubt built much better. But I digress......

Either way, I will not buy a Chinese built Yamaha or Honda. Not for the prices they're demanding. I'll buy a Champion at half the price if I were to buy a cheap Chinese generator.
 
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: cronk
I know Op did not ask, but I am very happy with my Champion power Equipment 2000w inverter.
Conventional construction, cast iron sleeve, steel cam, overhead valves with pushrods.
Similar noise levels and performance fo its blue and red cousins, but less than half the price.

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Eq...pment+generator



Yup the champion is half the price.

It has half to 1/3rd the valve lash inspection interval - 100 for the champion vs 200 hours for the honda and 300 for the yamaha .

It appears to have been built with much softer material in the top end.

Finding parts for the red and blue gensets is as easy as going to a motorcycle shop of which there are usually several in every city. Not sure where to get parts for a champion.



UD


Yes, you come out on every small engine post that involves Champion and say this.
In reality recommended valve lash check intervals have little to nothing to do with engine life.
I have over 100 hours on my Champion and checked the valve lash, still in spec.
There was a poster over on RV.net that used a pair of Champion inverters to run his food truck, had well over 1000 hours with no issues. Still going strong last I heard.

Good luck finding many inverter gen parts in stock at any motorcycle shop. They might have a spark plug in stock.

I can order parts for My champion direct from the manufacturer. They have a large warehouse in California.
A carburetor for my Champion inverter is $35, how much is a Honda carburetor?
 
Originally Posted By: cronk
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: cronk
I know Op did not ask, but I am very happy with my Champion power Equipment 2000w inverter.
Conventional construction, cast iron sleeve, steel cam, overhead valves with pushrods.
Similar noise levels and performance fo its blue and red cousins, but less than half the price.

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Power-Eq...pment+generator



Yup the champion is half the price.

It has half to 1/3rd the valve lash inspection interval - 100 for the champion vs 200 hours for the honda and 300 for the yamaha .

It appears to have been built with much softer material in the top end.

Finding parts for the red and blue gensets is as easy as going to a motorcycle shop of which there are usually several in every city. Not sure where to get parts for a champion.



UD


Yes, you come out on every small engine post that involves Champion and say this.
In reality recommended valve lash check intervals have little to nothing to do with engine life.
I have over 100 hours on my Champion and checked the valve lash, still in spec.
There was a poster over on RV.net that used a pair of Champion inverters to run his food truck, had well over 1000 hours with no issues. Still going strong last I heard.

Good luck finding many inverter gen parts in stock at any motorcycle shop. They might have a spark plug in stock.

I can order parts for My champion direct from the manufacturer. They have a large warehouse in California.
A carburetor for my Champion inverter is $35, how much is a Honda carburetor?


I come out of every small engine post where guys claim something - or other is just as good as a Honda yamaha subaru- for half the price - then go look up the specs.

Generac, champion, boliy, briggs, tecumseh - no names - I don't "have it out for" any brand, but I want to know the truth about the published maintenance schedule.

Ok - so you can order a part from the manufacturer and maybe they can send one right away, maybe they take a few days to process the order. Thats just great.

How does that help you if you need a genset on Saturday and find the carb is gummed up Friday night?

Never had to buy a carb for my Hondas, but I did need a switch once and an intake valve -(both in stock) can drive down the street TODAY and get one at several places.

100 hours is squat, that wont cover running an AC at a campsite for 7 day vacation. Its great your unit didnt need adjustment- but you still have to check it. Id rather not.

I have no issue with low priced gensets, but for people to claim they are getting the same quality, durability for half off when the spec say something else is when I chime in.

No emotion - simply data.



UD
 
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave

Other than those two things - the yamaha is the pick.

iron liner


The Honda EU2000i does have a cast iron cylinder sleeve, as do all other Hondas, with the exception of the EU1000i, which is truly 100% aluminum.
 
Interesting I wonder if they may have gone back and forth - I read and was told it has a niksasil liner

I read the GX100 does , but had also read the EU powerhead isn't really that - its diff version of it with nikasil / electrochrome (whatever scheme) liners.

Im very happy to be wrong about that and will like the hondas I already own " more" if so.

UD
 
ok, I know my 100 hours is no big deal, but you claim the metal in the champion is inferior because it requires such frequent valve lash adjustments.
So by that logic, since mine is still right in spec, must not be so inferior after all.

Also the poster on RV.net has used his pair of Champions for 5 years and going on his food truck and had no issues.
 
BTW, if Honda is your preferred brand that's cool. But I don't like being talked down to for having a different preferred brand than you.
I bought my Champion 3 years ago and it has worked well and been trouble free. I like the way it is designed and it suits my needs very well.
There are many Champion owners that feel the same way I do. Go to the RV forums or read the reviews on Amazon, many satisfied owners.

I know most of us have been bit by a cheap no name brand purchase we regret, but Champion has become a well respected brand and does not fall in that category.
 
Honda is not my fav gasoline genset brand even though I own two of them.
Yamaha is, and I have an EF3000ISEB as well as many other gensets in my motorhome toy hauler, dog vans etc,,,,,

Nobody's talking down to anyone. Just a bunch of guys talking about generators at least as far as Im concerned, everyone all sensitive about everything here.

However you are the one making claims of equal "performance" for half price but left out big part of the ownership picture in that claim.

Most lash adjustment moves when under sustained load so wether yours moved or not isnt really that telling without knowing the load/ time imposed upon it.
You still have to check it 2-3X the interval of Japanese brands wether it moves or not, an dI would say yes the valve train is softer overall in the 100 hour rigs, and that this metric is a good indication of the quality of the metal and parts in the valve train.

Im not saying it isnt a good generator or that it will not give a good service life.
Im very please to see another option in the market, but I don't give any brand a pass on its specs or logistical operations, and champion gets no diff treatment than any other brand.


They are similar on many levels - but published required maintenance is not one of them.


UD
 
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Originally Posted By: FastLane
Honestly, how often does one have to adjust the valves???
Originally Posted By: FastLane
Honestly, how often does one have to adjust the valves???


How long is a piece of string ?

Valve train wear is based on run time at X % load time (or similar formula ) and not linear over the life of the device.
Which is why the inspection interval is important in something you intend to keep running for thousands if not 10K of hours reliably

I ran a honda 2K so hard It breached spec and damaged itself (not intentionally) -done in about 210 running hours at 90+% load. WITHIN its interval. It never moved that fast before- but it did this cycle in its life. I should say a third party did this and I had to trouble shoot what happened in the field with my gear.
TO be fair to the honda it is not designed for commercial use it was enduring, but is a solid machine worthy of its high price.

Most guys ignore it and change oil, plugs, and clean out exhaust but never crack the valve covers - this is the most common long run failing I seen is a burnt valve from riding of the base of the cam as the valve pounds upward in the stem. GEnset still runs but performs poorly and very hard to start.

A real high performance NA race engine extracts heavy tolls on crews- A Merc 850 " supercat" racing engine would have it lash adjusted every 15 hours

Two devices from the same manufacturer may vary an interesting amount.

There is no hard set answer to valve train wear, only the recommended inspection interval.

UD
 
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Heres the Champion (box style 2000) carb compliant units.

Pretty similar with one big "swing" item.

If I were running something like a battery charger with a tapered decreasing load continually the champion would be a great choice, as it would spend a lot of its run time at half or less throttle and even though the check interval doesn't change the adjustment interval would probably be nil.

Something like running an 10K plus BTU AC unit in Florida where it wouldn't be unusual to run a window or rooftop AC Unit for a week at a time where the unit will park itself at 70-95% load and sustain it with extended run tanks or continual run times- is where you start to notice the valves pounding themselves up into the seats and adjustments being necessary.

 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
UncleDave:

"cam chain- (Ive had to replace one of my Hondas belts already)"

The Yamaha has push rod valve actuation. I normally prefer conventional OHC technology. However, for an engine that will max out a 5000 rpm, push rods will suffice.

Have to admit however that despite Honda's unorthodox approach to building the EU2000's engine, it does appear to be a successful and durable design. Not sure that it would have the overall lifespan of the Yamaha?

How many hours did you get on your EU2000 before you replaced the cam belt? I've got over 1400 yours on my EF2000is without so much as a valve adjustment. All I've done is 15 oil changes and the thing is still running like new.

I read one account of a guy who ran his EF2000is for 18000 hours and did little other than replacing the pull start rope once, oil changes and cleaning the air filter. If that's factual, it's simply amazing.

Here's a link to an interesting review of the EF2000is: http://ghost32writer.com/?p=6127



I think either the Honda or Yamaha would run thousands of hours if taken care of and not running those hours at peak load or for short periods of time. This ghostwriter guy is basically off the grid and runs the unit all the time. I think the load was probably 1/4 or 1/2 most of the time, which probably helped extend the life of the unit. Like highway miles on a generator. I'll be super interested if this guys new EF2000i has the same life-span as the Japan built 2009 model. I hope he posts updates on it. I would love if either Honda or Yamaha had a liner/nikasil or other coating on their ef/eu1000 series units to make them as durable as the ef/eu2000's. Seems like they probably don't want to add cast iron liner for weight, but other coatings could add durability while not adding weight perhaps. Sure you can't run too much with either unit, but they are must easier to carry around for light duty, camping, tailgating, etc.
 
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My experience is that higher revving/heavier loading and poor oil maintenance will stress valve trains more than anything else. Engines that run at light loads and low rpms may never need a valve adjustment and if they do, valve train noise will usually become apparent to a trained ear if a loose condition exists. Higher than normal tappet noises is usually a clue for a valve adjustment.

My 1800 rpm Kubota diesel went a good 5000+ hours without a valve adjustment. When I finally did decide to check the valve lash, only one was a little loose. The others were within spec. Loose, by the way is far better than tight and tight valves don't give the same audible signals. Hard starting, bogging down under load especially when hot are a couple indicators that the valve adjustment should be inspected. Problem is that by then, the damage may have already been done.

My EF2000is has been running for over 1400 hours albeit 99% of it being at a leisurely pace. It usually starts first pull every time unless it's unusually cold then it may require three or four pulls. As far as I can tell, there's no issue with the valve lash yet.

My confidence in this machine is bolstered by the reviews I've read where ten thousand or more hours are put on these little Yamahas with virtually no maintenance other than oil changes, air filter cleaning, spark plugs and spark arrestor cleaning. Maybe next season, I'll give it it's 5 year check up and take a look at the valve adjustment.

As far as the "brand" debate goes, the phrase "you get what you pay for" usually applies. However, with the premium brands now building machines in China combined with some Chinese brands upping their game, the lines are becoming blurred. Only time will tell how quickly the premium brands Chinese built machines fail and how long the better Chinese brands will last.

I sincerely hope the Champions do live long productive lives. I'd love to be able to buy a nice inverter generator for half the price of an equivalent Honda or Yamaha.
 
"This ghostwriter guy is basically off the grid"

Ghostwriter is no longer living off grid. According to his blog, he's since moved to town due to his wife's condition.

Seems we'll have to rely on reading Amazon reviews to see how well the Chinese built Yamahas hold up.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
My experience is that higher revving/heavier loading and poor oil maintenance will stress valve trains more than anything else. Engines that run at light loads and low rpms may never need a valve adjustment and if they do, valve train noise will usually become apparent to a trained ear if a loose condition exists. Higher than normal tappet noises is usually a clue for a valve adjustment.

My 1800 rpm Kubota diesel went a good 5000+ hours without a valve adjustment. When I finally did decide to check the valve lash, only one was a little loose. The others were within spec. Loose, by the way is far better than tight and tight valves don't give the same audible signals. Hard starting, bogging down under load especially when hot are a couple indicators that the valve adjustment should be inspected. Problem is that by then, the damage may have already been done.

My EF2000is has been running for over 1400 hours albeit 99% of it being at a leisurely pace. It usually starts first pull every time unless it's unusually cold then it may require three or four pulls. As far as I can tell, there's no issue with the valve lash yet.

My confidence in this machine is bolstered by the reviews I've read where ten thousand or more hours are put on these little Yamahas with virtually no maintenance other than oil changes, air filter cleaning, spark plugs and spark arrestor cleaning. Maybe next season, I'll give it it's 5 year check up and take a look at the valve adjustment.

As far as the "brand" debate goes, the phrase "you get what you pay for" usually applies. However, with the premium brands now building machines in China combined with some Chinese brands upping their game, the lines are becoming blurred. Only time will tell how quickly the premium brands Chinese built machines fail and how long the better Chinese brands will last.

I sincerely hope the Champions do live long productive lives. I'd love to be able to buy a nice inverter generator for half the price of an equivalent Honda or Yamaha.


Yup.

Id mirror the same on my diesel gensets.

My big Cat (perkapillar ) 1800RPM 8000W genset has had one adjustment in 2000 hours, basically the break in adjustment is also and hasn't moved since.

My Onan 8K (kubota D722) needed the exhaust valves adjusted a tiny bit at 2000 hours and at 4500 house they are all starting to move around a bit but still all in spec. The kubota is a diesel inverter and spools up which is where I believe the slight movement comes from.

I actually want Champion to do well and continue to improve. I like having choices.


UD
 
Originally Posted By: cronk
BTW, if Honda is your preferred brand that's cool.

I bought my Champion 3 years ago and it has worked well and been trouble free. I like the way it is designed and it suits my needs very well.

Go to the RV forums or read the reviews on Amazon, many satisfied owners.



Agreed! In fact, certain Champion generators are known to last 10,000 hours of real world use. That's a very long time. And the capital "cost per hour" of the Champion is absolutely better than just competitive, it's great. One could clearly purchase multiple Champion units for the cost of a single "name brand" unit.

I can't speak to the metalurgy of the various different brands, I can only make a guess. But clearly, Honda uses a known and effective set of long wear life components. I do know certain low end HF generator engines use cast iron faced piston rings. They work, they last and are trouble free. They don't last as long as chrome faced rings, but that may not matter. As the rings may not be the first thing to wear out or fail.
 
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