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#4528078 - 09/28/17 03:24 AM Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps.
LucasDK Offline


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 77
Loc: Denmark, Europe
Hi,

I am trying to figure out the different applications for threadlocker (for instance Loctite 243, blue, medium) and anti seize (copper, aluminum, nickel etc).

General consensus:

1. Threadlocker is mainly used to prevent loosening of bolts/nuts, however it cannot withstand high temperatures. You can get high temperature versions up to 650 F ... but 650 F is almost cold.
2. Anti seize is mainly used to prevent galling, corrosion, seizure etc and is designed to withstand high temperatures - even up to 2300 F. The mechanism: Grease/oil is burnt off while metal flakes remain in the threads.

Question:

How do I tighten a bolt/nut in a vibrating environment (high risk of loosening) where operating temperatures reach let's say 1200 F?

If my only option is to use anti seize, why can't I use anti seize in cool/cold environments?

Lucas
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#4528081 - 09/28/17 03:45 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
FowVay Offline


Registered: 06/02/02
Posts: 2649
Loc: Southeastern USA
You don't give reference to your application but I do have experience with dealing with very hot installed fasteners and with ensuring their security.

Nickel anti-seize for the very high application (internal gas turbine), graphite for the less intense (external gas turbine), and safety wire for the critical retention.

If you're dealing with extreme temperatures where exotic alloys are required then a mechanical means of retention will be needed. if you can't safety wire then use a locking nut or insert with sufficient run-on torque to prevent backing out.
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#4528082 - 09/28/17 03:49 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
rooflessVW Online   content


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 3651
Loc: North Carolina
Second the safety wire.

I imagine you're talking about a turbocharger housing. You can buy pre-drilled bolts or drill them your self if you have a press.
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"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

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#4528135 - 09/28/17 06:15 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
Superflan Offline


Registered: 04/28/15
Posts: 335
Loc: Reunion Island
Nord lock wedge nut?

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#4528212 - 09/28/17 08:26 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
NYEngineer Offline


Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1469
Loc: NY, NY
You can use anti seize at low temps just fine. I've done it a million times on marine applications.

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#4528240 - 09/28/17 08:51 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: NYEngineer]
SVTCobra Offline


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 694
Loc: Battle Creek, MI
I've used the wedge nuts before - second that idea especially if it can't be safety wired.
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#4528260 - 09/28/17 09:12 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: NYEngineer]
LucasDK Offline


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 77
Loc: Denmark, Europe
Originally Posted By: NYEngineer
You can use anti seize at low temps just fine. I've done it a million times on marine applications.


Hi,

That was actually the answer I was looking for. But if it is true, why even thinking about stocking and using threadlocker at all???

Lucas
_________________________
Toyota Hiace 2,4D (2L engine)
Toyota Corolla AE92, (4A-FE engine)
Ford Model A (3,4 liter engine)

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#4528314 - 09/28/17 10:15 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
rooflessVW Online   content


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 3651
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: LucasDK
Originally Posted By: NYEngineer
You can use anti seize at low temps just fine. I've done it a million times on marine applications.

Hi,

That was actually the answer I was looking for. But if it is true, why even thinking about stocking and using threadlocker at all???

Lucas

Because they're two totally different applications. Threadlocker is typically used on high vibration components or parts that rotate; on fasteners that you don't want removing themselves in operation.

Anti-seize is used to prevent against corrosion or to help ensure you can accurately and consistently torque a fastener.
_________________________
"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

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#4528331 - 09/28/17 10:39 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: rooflessVW]
jeepman3071 Offline


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 4061
Loc: Storrs, Connecticut
Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Originally Posted By: LucasDK
Originally Posted By: NYEngineer
You can use anti seize at low temps just fine. I've done it a million times on marine applications.

Hi,

That was actually the answer I was looking for. But if it is true, why even thinking about stocking and using threadlocker at all???

Lucas

Because they're two totally different applications. Threadlocker is typically used on high vibration components or parts that rotate; on fasteners that you don't want removing themselves in operation.

Anti-seize is used to prevent against corrosion or to help ensure you can accurately and consistently torque a fastener.



This.

They each have completely different purposes as their names imply. Threadlocker keeps things snug and tight so they do not come loose. Anti-seize keeps things from getting stuck and never coming off.
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#4528366 - 09/28/17 11:23 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
andyd Offline


Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 6863
Loc: Marshfield , MA
Heh heh, Toothed washers are the bomb. I also use a sharp punch to booger up the threads at the nut /bolt juncture. Doesn't take much, and reforms as soon as you take a turn on the nut.
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#4528974 - 09/29/17 01:23 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 17501
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: LucasDK
Hi,

That was actually the answer I was looking for. But if it is true, why even thinking about stocking and using threadlocker at all???

Lucas


I like to use threadlocker on low torque applications when dealing with gaskets that are set to 89 inch pounds. Applications with gaskets are kind of critical. On larger bolts and especially the bolts that are in the vicinity of the exhaust manifold , I like to use anti-seize.

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#4528988 - 09/29/17 02:57 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: Merkava_4]
LucasDK Offline


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 77
Loc: Denmark, Europe
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4


I like to use threadlocker on low torque applications when dealing with gaskets that are set to 89 inch pounds. Applications with gaskets are kind of critical. On larger bolts and especially the bolts that are in the vicinity of the exhaust manifold , I like to use anti-seize.


So what you are saying:

In applications where you CAN rely on the clamping force of the bolt (only metallic parts in contact), you would recommend anti seize.
In applications where you cannot fully trust the parts to be clamped and where delicate parts might be squeezed, you recommend threadlocker (where you cannot reach the true clamping force)?
_________________________
Toyota Hiace 2,4D (2L engine)
Toyota Corolla AE92, (4A-FE engine)
Ford Model A (3,4 liter engine)

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#4528998 - 09/29/17 03:51 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
rooflessVW Online   content


Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 3651
Loc: North Carolina
The applications for both thread locker and anti-seize are right there in the names.

Thread locker makes it difficult for bolts to come loose, basically glueing the fastener in place and preventing rotation.

Anti seize makes it easier for bolts to come out later in high heat, dissimilar metal, or corrosion-prone applications. Alternatively, it is used to ensure accurate application of torque when tightening specific critical fasteners. In these cases the fastener will usually have a positive locking mechanism like a cotter pin, nylon insert self-locking nut, or a deformed metal self-locking nut.

In both cases, I recommend their use only when specifically called for by the relevant tech data.
_________________________
"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

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#4529016 - 09/29/17 04:50 AM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
Lubener Offline


Registered: 01/22/11
Posts: 2499
Loc: N.Ohio
I wouldn't use anti seize in a high vibration environment. Lightly oil and torque to specs.
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#4531134 - 10/01/17 12:43 PM Re: Threadlocker vs anti seize at high temps. [Re: LucasDK]
Merkava_4 Offline


Registered: 01/30/07
Posts: 17501
Loc: Clovis, CA
Originally Posted By: LucasDK
So what you are saying:

In applications where you CAN rely on the clamping force of the bolt (only metallic parts in contact), you would recommend anti seize.
In applications where you cannot fully trust the parts to be clamped and where delicate parts might be squeezed, you recommend threadlocker (where you cannot reach the true clamping force)?


That's pretty much it yes. The main thing is to avoid assembling with dry threads whenever possible.

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