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#4527916 - 09/27/17 08:24 PM Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Synthesis (the chemical recipe for making this synthetic substance) of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) consists of two stages.

1) phosphorus pentasulfide (P2S5) is reacted with an alcohol (usually isooctyl and or isopropyl)) to give dialkyldithiophosphoric acid, or DDP acid.
2) the acid is then neutralized by zinc oxide. Hence, ZDDP.

The resulting product is then heated to drive off any H2O and is filtered.

By changing reaction conditions such as rate of stirring, reaction pressure, neutralizing process, the order of addition of starting materials, and the types and amounts of alcohol, P2S5 and ZnO, various flavors of ZDDP can be produced.

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#4527942 - 09/27/17 09:02 PM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: MolaKule]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4461
Loc: Down Under
Thanks MolaKule.

ZDDP seems to be a fairly useful oil add, it's an anti-wear agent to protect the metal, an antioxidant to protect the oil, and now it's found to strongly quench LSPI. Sure the Phos has exhaust cat poisoning issues.

With GF-5 oils you see 650 to 800 ppm Phos levels, while with Euro grade oils you often see 1000 ppm Phos levels and with HDEO maybe 1100 to 1200 ppm Phos (+100 ppm for the zinc levels).

If a new set of PCMO oil specs were realeased that had only performance levels to achieve, not chemical limits, what Phos & zinc level would you formulate around ? At least as a starting point before you tested and refined your blend.
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#4528018 - 09/27/17 11:16 PM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: SR5]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: SR5
Thanks MolaKule.


...If a new set of PCMO oil specs were realeased that had only performance levels to achieve, not chemical limits, what Phos & zinc level would you formulate around ? At least as a starting point before you tested and refined your blend.



If cost were not so much an issue, I would use a two-tier AW system consisting of
a ZDDP treatment level yielding 350ppm phos and 400ppm of zinc, with an AW ester.

I have an experimental oil I developed some time ago with 300ppm phos and 350ppm of zinc with that special AW ester and the results showed very low wear in three test engines. When the cost of that special AW ester comes down, I think the formulation will be more marketable.

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#4528083 - 09/28/17 03:51 AM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: MolaKule]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4461
Loc: Down Under
Wow !! ... How interesting.

Could you tell us any more about the anti-wear ester. Low or High molecular weight ? Polar or non-Polar ?

Only if you are allowed to speak about it.
_________________________
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#4528225 - 09/28/17 08:42 AM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: MolaKule]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2553
Loc: MN
MolaKule is likely talking about http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/zinc-replacement-additive-c7.html types of polymer esters.
Ketjenlube too. http://vento.com.vn/docs/en/Surfactants/Lubricant%20additive/Lubricant%20Additive.pdf
Fuchs oil in Germany makes zddp-free (zero) oils, they might be using polymer esters.


Edited by oil_film_movies (09/28/17 08:45 AM)

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#4528598 - 09/28/17 04:30 PM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: oil_film_movies]
SR5 Offline


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 4461
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
MolaKule is likely talking about http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/zinc-replacement-additive-c7.html types of polymer esters.
Ketjenlube too. http://vento.com.vn/docs/en/Surfactants/Lubricant%20additive/Lubricant%20Additive.pdf
Fuchs oil in Germany makes zddp-free (zero) oils, they might be using polymer esters.


Thanks mate, I'll have a read.
_________________________
Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154

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#4529535 - 09/29/17 04:12 PM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: oil_film_movies]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA

AkzoNobel is but one of three worldwide suppliers of polymer esters.

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#4533641 - 10/04/17 10:18 AM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: MolaKule]
bigj_16 Offline


Registered: 07/03/17
Posts: 1267
Loc: Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Synthesis (the chemical recipe for making this synthetic substance) of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) consists of two stages.

1) phosphorus pentasulfide (P2S5) is reacted with an alcohol (usually isooctyl and or isopropyl)) to give dialkyldithiophosphoric acid, or DDP acid.
2) the acid is then neutralized by zinc oxide. Hence, ZDDP.

The resulting product is then heated to drive off any H2O and is filtered.

By changing reaction conditions such as rate of stirring, reaction pressure, neutralizing process, the order of addition of starting materials, and the types and amounts of alcohol, P2S5 and ZnO, various flavors of ZDDP can be produced.

What is the end game in producing the various flavors? Solubility in different oils?

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#4542565 - 10/13/17 08:12 PM Re: Simple Explanation of ZDDP Synthesis [Re: bigj_16]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: bigj_16

What is the end game in producing the various flavors? Solubility in different oils?


The ratios of zinc, phosphorus, and sulfur in ZDDP can be custom made.

The end game is that different flavors of the ZDDP ester can be used in different applications.

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