Question for Pet Owners - Raw Food Diet for Pets?

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Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Any issues with parasites or food poisoning with a raw diet has less data available to substantiate those claims than the grape/raison debate.



There are whole university vetrinary, zoology, and medical departments devoted to invertebrate parasitology. This statement defies reality, to its face.


Of course the study of "parasitology" is undertaken. I have no doubt that any creature eating parasite infected foods could contract one. What I was stating...was that by feeding a dog a proper raw diet of human grade food...the data of those dogs contacting parasites is about ZERO. As I've said before....your dog has an equal or greater chance of becoming seriously ill eating processed dog food (per the 2007 recall after the deaths of at least 7,000 pets).


Even in the US, parasites are a significant health issue. Globally its a problem affecting billions of people.

Of course not all parasites are contracted from raw or undercooked meat, but some are, and most humans don't eat raw meat. If they did, the problem would be much larger.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/parasites-causing-infections-in-the-us-cdc-says/
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: andrewg
You aren't supposed to make sense nor use your brain Zee. You are a "fear monger", remember?


0.00019% of the dogs in the US died from possible grape/raisin toxicity in 2004.

Is that the number that you "fathom" when declaring them highly toxic ?

Originally Posted By: andrewg

You obviously don't fathom that many canines have died from eating grapes....regardless if they "preferred" to eat them?? Grapes, among many different fruits, can be highly toxic to canines. But hey...what do I know?


Still interested in how there are any dogs left in France or the NAPA valley.


The French Paradox II?
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
BTW, where's the source of the 0.00019% ?


Took the reported 140, and divided it by the population for that year...same way that you worked backwards...

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Even though the percentage is small, it's still obvious that dog owners need to not let dogs eat grapes or raisins.


Note, NOWHERE IN THIS THREAD have I advised ANYONE to feed their dog chocolate, grapes, of onions...nowehere, in spite of AndyG's overly loud protestations...of which he's still not provided evidence that I have.

Official figures are less than 300 dogs with grapes, and clearly it's not "highly toxic" to the vast majority...that is pure scaremongering...note again, I never advised anyone to do it.

But if you dropped a couple of grapes and your dog scooped it up (or a chocolate square, or it dug through the rubbish to eat last night's pasta), I wouldn't be telling people to go to the vet and commence $1,000s of treatment...like you and AndyG, and the alarmist websites would clearly be advising them with your stance on zero, eh ?

To be screaming about the risk to dogs of grapes, but utterly dismissive of parasites indicates a serious agenda driven thought process (not you, you just like arguing with me
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I'm still wondering if there are any dogs left in France...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
BTW, where's the source of the 0.00019% ?

Took the reported 140, and divided it by the population for that year...same way that you worked backwards...


Ok, so where is the source that reported the 140 dogs died of grape/raisin ingestion in 2004. I didn't see it in the dog study paper. Gotta explain where the cherry picking is coming from. Are cherries bad for dogs?
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Even though the percentage is small, it's still obvious that dog owners need to not let dogs eat grapes or raisins.

Note, NOWHERE IN THIS THREAD have I advised ANYONE to feed their dog chocolate, grapes, of onions...nowehere, in spite of AndyG's overly loud protestations...of which he's still not provided evidence that I have.

Official figures are less than 300 dogs with grapes, and clearly it's not "highly toxic" to the vast majority...that is pure scaremongering...note again, I never advised anyone to do it.

But if you dropped a couple of grapes and your dog scooped it up (or a chocolate square, or it dug through the rubbish to eat last night's pasta), I wouldn't be telling people to go to the vet and commence $1,000s of treatment...like you and AndyG, and the alarmist websites would clearly be advising them with your stance on zero, eh ?

To be screaming about the risk to dogs of grapes, but utterly dismissive of parasites indicates a serious agenda driven thought process (not you, you just like arguing with me
smile.gif
)


I've never said or eluded to rush a dog to the vet to spend $1000s if a dog ate a couple of grapes/raisins ... don't be so dramatic - LoL.

I'm not arguing with you ... just commenting on what I'm reading about the subject matter. I already said you didn't specifically "advocate" that these foods should be fed to dogs, but it comes across as you think that it's not a big deal, and the risk is low of causing any harm. Who knows unless you do let your dog eat this stuff - every dog is different as the dog study paper eludes to with it's findings.

Like I said, if I had a dog I'd take precautions and not let the dog get into foods known to be possibly very harmful - basic pet owner common sense - I'd think you'd agree with that viewpoint. Doesn't matter if only 140 dogs died in a year or not from eating grape/raisins. If I had a dog and I knew it got into grape/raisins for some reason, I'd certainly be watching for the toxicity symptoms and take the appropriate action if the effect was serious.
 
I agree with the latter...avoid, don't be paranoid.

The 140 was .... it was.... clears throat...from wiki (which I never use LOL), as for such a horrific and dangerous substance there are nearly no numbers...closest to actual numbers is the less than 300 number (50 to 300) in a list of things that you eat but shouldn't feed dogs, but again, I can find chocolate, and allium numbers, even xylitol...

http://www.nomorevetbills.com/2011/grapes-toxic-to-dogs/ for another P.O.V. as to why the numbers simply don't exist for such an horrific and prevalent issue...

orders of magnitude more dogs die in car crashes when travelling in cars...where's the hype and hysteria all over the net ?

I'm sure that quite a few die chewing on flipflops too...
 
^^^ Yeah, it's not a prevalent issue ... but something dog owners should know about. People die ever year too from eating or getting served foods they are allergic to, like peanuts and peanut based food products.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
My opinions expressed here had nothing to do with the "hippy-dippy holistic" crowd. I'm the furthest thing from that. I've been caring for dogs for 40 years.


I'm afraid this sounds pretty hippy-dippy to me.

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Dogs are animals. Carnivorous animals. They have digestive tracts naturally designed to consume meat IN IT'S PUREST FORM.


PUREST FORM? Whence cometh this purity and what is it? What are the alleged benefits of rawness, specifically? Merely saying its "Common wisdom" doesn't cut it

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Can dogs eat raw pork? Certainly they can. Do they get ill from it? Well, considering canines eat sometimes partially rotting flesh that has been sitting in the sun for days.....do you really think that human grade pork is going to cause a dog harm?


Short and most precise answer? MAYBE

As someone already pointed out above, raw pork is specifically dangerous due to the risk of trichinosis which affects dogs as well as humans.

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/infectious-parasitic/c_dg_trichinosis

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Would uncooked meats be dangerous to ingest?


Short and most precise answer? No.


Pretty definate statement, but it seems that what you actually mean is something along the lines of:-

"I've been doing it for years and never had an issue"

That's pretty standard bitog bollocks, and harmless enough in the context of oil choice, which, like grapes, doesn't really matter.

When its medical advice which could have human health consequences, you should probably either be more cautious, or keep your over-confidence to yourself.

Someone might believe you.
 
I could never give her raw meat. There's always the argument that "That's what they eat in the wild",but look at the life expectancy of an animal in the wild vs a house pet. My best friend in high school had a calico cat that lived to be 25.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I could never give her raw meat. There's always the argument that "That's what they eat in the wild",but look at the life expectancy of an animal in the wild vs a house pet. My best friend in high school had a calico cat that lived to be 25.

This is a pretty good point. But ultimately the question of whether an animal is a carnivore, omnivore or herbivore isn't really what they eat or don't eat in the wild since that may be influenced my environmental conditions or just locality. It actually has to do with their how they deal with nitrogen during protein metabolism (the urea cycle). Carnivores are unable to synthesize certain amino acids and a plant-based diet is lethal to them. There is a lot more to it but it's really about metabolism not behavior.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I agree with the latter...avoid, don't be paranoid.

The 140 was .... it was.... clears throat...from wiki (which I never use LOL), as for such a horrific and dangerous substance there are nearly no numbers...closest to actual numbers is the less than 300 number (50 to 300) in a list of things that you eat but shouldn't feed dogs, but again, I can find chocolate, and allium numbers, even xylitol...

http://www.nomorevetbills.com/2011/grapes-toxic-to-dogs/ for another P.O.V. as to why the numbers simply don't exist for such an horrific and prevalent issue...

orders of magnitude more dogs die in car crashes when travelling in cars...where's the hype and hysteria all over the net ?

I'm sure that quite a few die chewing on flipflops too...


You would have avoided an unneeded argument if you'd just said this to begin with instead of being belligerent about the cautionary statements made here.
 
What sounds "hippy-dippy"?? For the record, my life policies come from the right. To some...the far right. Simply because I care for my dogs and have spent a great deal of time learning about the nutritional needs....doesn't make me a hippy type, holistic following, Birkenstock wearing, flake.

Bullocks? Ha ha ha. Okay. But I'll stay with my diet for the lifespan of my pets. They are doing better than ever.

Have a fantastic day, my opinionated friend.
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
belligerent


LOL, the fireplace calling the pot black...

I relayed a situation that I observed when I was a kid...look how YOU responded, charging in on your hobby horse, tissue paper armour flailing in the breeze...
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
What's everyone's take on this new cat food trend I keep seeing,"Indoor Cat Formula"?


It's good for long haired cats to help prevent hair balls. I think they put some greens in it to help their stomach aches since most indoor cats don't have access to grass.
 
I bought this for Keeks this weekend. She literally inhaled it! Sorry the 2nd pic is a little blurry.


 
Looks good for cat food. Temptations Cat Treats are very good, kind of like crack for cats. Just try to keep the portion sizes in check, 7-8 of them at a time. I used to give her those at night. And she would be looking for them every evening.
 
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
Looks good for cat food. Temptations Cat Treats are very good, kind of like crack for cats. Just try to keep the portion sizes in check, 7-8 of them at a time. I used to give her those at night. And she would be looking for them every evening.


Thanks!
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I divided the can into thirds. I have to make sure she watches her purrfect ladylike petite figure
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Heehee
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
What sounds "hippy-dippy"?? For the record, my life policies come from the right. To some...the far right.


In another pet care thread recently I quoted famous American cat expert (and anti-Fascist) Earnest Hemingway on "cats know how to look after themselves" and got my post deleted, but maybe we're on thicker political ice with your right-wing-ness. Here goes anyway.

I was using "hippy-dippy" as shorthand for muddle-headed mysticism with no visible means of support, as I think my examples made clear. Your reference to raw meat as the "PUREST FORM" was, to my ear, in that ball-park.

You can of course be as far-right as you like, but it doesn't stop you being wrong on this issue, nor does it make you immune to the mystical mythical appeal of "natural".
 
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