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#4526254 - 09/25/17 10:02 PM LSA Shelf Life
SlamFire Offline


Registered: 12/25/15
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
I purchased a couple of quarts of LSA from Numrich.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/281390



The lubricant semi fluid oil appears to be made in 1990 or have an expiration date of 1990. I have been using the stuff, as long as I shake it up well, it works. I pour LSA from the can into one of those 4 ounce plastic LSA bottles. I have a marble in the bottle and shake and the LSA comes out thick and uniformly white. A creamy white substance deposits out of the fluid but will go back into solution if shaken. I assume that is normal.

My question, what is the shelf life of LSA? And, how what indications are there that will tell me that it is past its shelf life?

One more, what is a commercial equivalent? Someday my surplus cans will empty and I wonder where I can buy new.

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#4526326 - 09/26/17 01:10 AM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
user52165 Offline


Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 1332
Loc: CA
Don't know but I used that stuff 48 years ago on my M16. 9th Infantry Div.

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#4526366 - 09/26/17 04:36 AM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
With everything that's currently available out there to lubricate firearms with. I'm trying to come up with a reason to purchase quarter century old, $10.00 a quart, surplus gun lube? I can't.

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#4526435 - 09/26/17 07:34 AM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
Panzerman Offline


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 4203
Loc: Port Orange, Florida
Marvel Mystery oil and
have a nice winter green smelling AR.
_________________________

2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack

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#4526530 - 09/26/17 09:36 AM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: billt460]
Ed_Flecko Offline


Registered: 12/01/14
Posts: 611
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: billt460
With everything that's currently available out there to lubricate firearms with. I'm trying to come up with a reason to purchase quarter century old, $10.00 a quart, surplus gun lube? I can't.


I couldn't agree more.

Used this stuff in the Marines on both M-16 and M-60 and I was never impressed.

Ed

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#4526852 - 09/26/17 03:51 PM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
bsmithwins Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 362
Loc: OR, USA
$10 a quart is a lot cheaper than many other alternatives. What I like about LSA is that it's thicker than CLP and stays put better, but it's still creepy enough to seep in between parts that aren't disassembled.

BSW

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#4526859 - 09/26/17 04:07 PM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: bsmithwins]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: bsmithwins
$10 a quart is a lot cheaper than many other alternatives. BSW


Buy yourself a quart of Mobil 1. You can get it for around half of that, in any thickness you desire. And it won't be decades old. If it bothers you that it's an automotive product, write "Gun Oil" across the front of the bottle with a Sharpie. Your guns won't know the difference.

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#4526975 - 09/26/17 06:34 PM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
SlamFire Offline


Registered: 12/25/15
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
I have been using Mobil 1 for decades as a firearms lubricant. I think it is great stuff. I started using LSA in my match AR15's, match M1a's, and never had an issue with the lubricant. However, I keep my firearms clean and lubricated, a typical NRA highpower match is 88 rounds total, and I clean my rifles religiously after each match. I am not shooting endurance tests. I am not into running my weapons dry or dirty, nor into storing a dirty weapon and letting it rust between matches. More recently I started shooting NRA Bullseye Competition and have tried LSA on my M1911's and M41's and M46's. The most any pistol gets during a match is 180 rounds, if I shoot my 45 ACP in the Centerfire and 45 ACP matches.

What I like about LSA is the stuff sticks to the surfaces. I cannot prove that the lubrication of a semi fluid grease is any better than a thin oil, but, at the end of a match I find the metal surfaces well coated, and the pistols function as it should. My M1911's are fired with the lowest power loads possible and if they run dry they will malfunction. It is not unusual to see Bullseye Competitions oiling their pistol before going down range to score. Commonly these guys are putting a drop of oil on the barrel end, where it rubs in contact with the barrel bushing. Everyone has an oil bottle. Based on the bluing wear on the muzzle of my Les Baer Wadcutter, that is a high contact area. Something else I have seen, is Nationally ranked shooters passing a cleaning rod down the barrel after ten rounds. For the M1911's I liberally lubricate the barrel end, barrel bushing, barrel link, slide stop, locking lugs, and slide rails. I also put a drop down the hammer to lubricate the sear. I liberally lubricate my S&W M41's, particularly the slide recesses and under the barrel.

LSA is still being used and is recommended as the lubricant for a number of firearm applications. Therefore, opinions that it is old and obsolete need to come with rationale, something which I have not read.



Choice of firearm lubricants is often highly opinionated and since there are lots of lubricants on the market there are lots of opinions. I think LSA is a good choice for my applications based on tens of thousands of rounds shot downrange in NRA competition. What I was hoping for, was expert advice on how to recognize if LSA has reached its shelf life. And, where and what a commercial equivalent might be.

Maybe someone who actually has a tribology background, or an industry background, can provide an informed opinion.



Edited by SlamFire (09/26/17 06:36 PM)

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#4527359 - 09/27/17 08:24 AM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: billt460]
bsmithwins Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 362
Loc: OR, USA
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: bsmithwins
$10 a quart is a lot cheaper than many other alternatives. BSW


Buy yourself a quart of Mobil 1. You can get it for around half of that, in any thickness you desire. And it won't be decades old. If it bothers you that it's an automotive product, write "Gun Oil" across the front of the bottle with a Sharpie. Your guns won't know the difference.


I use engine oil on all my guns that have a oil pump and oil feed lines to the bearings.

BSW

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#4527369 - 09/27/17 08:38 AM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: bsmithwins]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: bsmithwins
I use engine oil on all my guns that have a oil pump and oil feed lines to the bearings.


Just as I'm sure all of the Frog Lube users only apply it to guns that run on a roller coaster track.

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#4527549 - 09/27/17 12:21 PM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
SlamFire Offline


Registered: 12/25/15
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
Quote:
I use engine oil on all my guns that have a oil pump and oil feed lines to the bearings.


LOL!

I think the recommendations I have seen so far in this thread , and in the ignorance expressed on this site about semi fluid greases, are based on the fact that Walmart does not carry semi fluid grease in the Automotive Department. People are familiar with what is on the shelf in the Automotive Department and other areas of lubricant technology that are not in the Automotive Department are in that department where there be monsters. Maybe one of those shelves in women's lingerie. It is apparent after searching this site, for posts on semi fluid greases, posters know more about margarine in the dairy section than about semi fluid greases.

Based on the manufacturer recommendations, semi fluid greases should be an excellent lubricant for firearms. The stuff is used in gear boxes and wheel bearings. Those applications are heavy duty applications which need a lubricant with tenious surface holding capability. I decided to conduct my own web search, found with almost no effort, manufacturer recommendations for semi fluid greases as such:

Penrite Semi Fluid Grease may used in the following applications:

Normal operating temperature range is from -20ºC to 130ºC.
Trailer bearing hubs where heavy oils are specified and leakage is a problem
Chain cases
Slow speed industrial gear boxes where AGMA 7EP (ISO 460 and above) or heavier oils are specified
Leaky gear boxes
Reduction gear boxes in slasher mowers
Track rollers in earth moving equipment
Centralised lubrication systems that require fluid (or "liquid") type greases
Burman motorcycle gear boxes


Similar applications are found with Amsoil and Royal Purple.:

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/grease/semi-fluid-00-synthetic-ep-grease/

http://www.royalpurpleindustrial.com/products/thermax-semi-fluid-grease/

http://www.valvolineeurope.com/english/products/greases/cid(12524)/semi_fluid_00

I did find this grease shelf life estimate from a Penrite grease brochure, one that is worth downloading for a reference:

Penrite Grease
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/tech_pdfs_new/Grease_brochure.pdf

GREASE SHELF LIFE:

The shelf life of any grease is affected by the type and amount of
thickener used, consistency of the grease, manufacturing method
employed and the formulation complexity. Generally, straight
Lithium, Lithium Complex and Calcium Complex greases remain
stable for a long time. Aluminium Complex greases tend to set and
harden, but remain stable. Bentone and Barium greases tend to
soften on aging. Based on these observations:
The shelf life of most Penrite greases is about 5 years. However,
Steering Box Lubricant and Semi Fluid Grease only have a 2 year
shelf life :



I don’t know why these semi fluid greases have such a short shelf life, maybe the base separates from the additives. I know, on every bottle of mil spec LSA it tells the user to shake well. I inserted a marble in my 4 ounce plastic bottles and shake the heck out of the them.

I have pulled the Mil Spec for LSA and found something unusual: it is a product spec not a performance spec and has a specified composition:

Lithium stearate
Bis sebacate
Di Isopropyl phosphate
2,6 di tertiary butly-p-cresol
Barium dinonylnapthanlene sufonate

I have looked at a couple of the chemical compounds, will search for information on the others. I don’t know if this lubricant has been superseded over time by other formulations or not. Manufacturer advertisements always claim to the latest and greatest, but don’t provide any meaningful data or comparisons.


Edited by SlamFire (09/27/17 12:28 PM)

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#4527648 - 09/27/17 02:24 PM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: SlamFire
......The shelf life of most Penrite greases is about 5 years. However, Steering Box Lubricant and Semi Fluid Grease only have a 2 year shelf life.

...I don’t know why these semi fluid greases have such a short shelf life, maybe the base separates from the additives. I know, on every bottle of mil spec LSA it tells the user to shake well.


So, it would appear that for whatever reason, these semi fluid lubricants have a very limited shelf life. The Military dumped this stuff in favor of CLP sometime in the early 80's. Which makes most all of this LSA that's for sale on the surplus market close to, if not over 30 years old. Or over 10 times beyond it's normal shelf life.

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#4527969 - 09/27/17 09:44 PM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: billt460]
SlamFire Offline


Registered: 12/25/15
Posts: 6
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: SlamFire
......The shelf life of most Penrite greases is about 5 years. However, Steering Box Lubricant and Semi Fluid Grease only have a 2 year shelf life.

...I don’t know why these semi fluid greases have such a short shelf life, maybe the base separates from the additives. I know, on every bottle of mil spec LSA it tells the user to shake well.


So, it would appear that for whatever reason, these semi fluid lubricants have a very limited shelf life. The Military dumped this stuff in favor of CLP sometime in the early 80's. Which makes most all of this LSA that's for sale on the surplus market close to, if not over 30 years old. Or over 10 times beyond it's normal shelf life.


You are just repeating nonsense you read earlier in this post. For LSA, the NSN is still current, 9150-00687424, it is on the current Qualified Products List. A search for semi fluid grease, and the spec create hits on Biz Ops. And, it seems, no one noticed, the date for the PM Monthly, where Connie Rodd and MSG Half-Mast are recommending its use, is dated Aug 2015.

Sentinel Canada will sell you some, brand new:

http://sentinelcanada.com/lubricating-oil/sent-46000/

Quote:
Semi-Fluid All-Weather Lubricant for Automatic Weapons

Sent-46000 is a light tan colored synthetic based semi-fluid grease with a lithium stearate thickener. Modern technology additives provide oxidation and corrosion resistance as well as rust protection and anti-wear properties.

Sent-46000 (Milspec MIL-L-46000C (1) is intended for use in automatic weapons systems and accessory equipment operating in severe environments and conditions where thin film and extreme pressure lubrication are encountered. Sent-46000 is recommended for the lubrication of weapons such as M2, M61, M134, GAUs, and other weapons systems where high cyclic rates of fire are encountered. Sent-46000 is suitable for use in temperatures ranging from -65°F to to 260°F.

Sent-46000 is also a suitable lubricant for precision gearboxes and worm drives where a low starting torque in cold temperatures is required as well as in applications where it is necessary to pump semi-fluid grease through small orifices.


I found a site that will sell a 55 gallon drum of the stuff, new stock, that is from 2016. Is that new enough for you? I also found sites that would sell 55 gallon drums of LSA but they did not put a date to what they have in inventory. I am not interested in buying 55 gallons drums or the 5 gallon pails that these sites offer.

This site has been a great disappointment. I was hoping to find some expertise, but all I find are Parrots repeating fallacious nonsense from others, or, repeating back what I have posted.

I think I will go to the park and dispense some bird seed and keep the pigeons there happy. Maybe they can give me better advice than what I got from their cousins.

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#4527979 - 09/27/17 10:01 PM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
bsmithwins Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 362
Loc: OR, USA
Royco 46 is another manufacturer's equivalent product. I haven't found anyone selling small quantities of that either.

Royco says shelf life is 2 years for military use and 3 years for commercial applications: http://www.royco.co.in/royco-46/

BSW


Edited by bsmithwins (09/27/17 10:07 PM)

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#4528073 - 09/28/17 02:58 AM Re: LSA Shelf Life [Re: SlamFire]
billt460 Offline


Registered: 03/30/15
Posts: 4416
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: SlamFire
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: SlamFire
......The shelf life of most Penrite greases is about 5 years. However, Steering Box Lubricant and Semi Fluid Grease only have a 2 year shelf life.

...I don’t know why these semi fluid greases have such a short shelf life, maybe the base separates from the additives. I know, on every bottle of mil spec LSA it tells the user to shake well.


So, it would appear that for whatever reason, these semi fluid lubricants have a very limited shelf life. The Military dumped this stuff in favor of CLP sometime in the early 80's. Which makes most all of this LSA that's for sale on the surplus market close to, if not over 30 years old. Or over 10 times beyond it's normal shelf life.


You are just repeating nonsense you read earlier in this post.


If I am, it's YOUR nonsense. If you don't want it quoted, then stop posting it. And if they are still using it, you can bet it's not 3 decades old. As is most ALL of what's available in small quantities on the surplus market. Exactly like what YOU, the OP was showing.

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