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Lube for larger marine diesels #4523993
09/23/17 01:03 PM
09/23/17 01:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
DeepFriar Offline OP
DeepFriar  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
Does anyone know what oils are recommended by the likes of Cummins, Cat, Detroit Diesel, MAN, MTU, et al engines (as in big and slow turning) up to say 19 liters? I think the intervals run about 400-600 hours unless the old oil is burned in combustion and continually replaced (I can't remember who does that) and was wondering if synth like Rotella is indicated like it would be in road-going versions of the engines. And at what weight? Or, have the marine engine makers stayed old school with mineral because, hey, it works and always has?

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524000
09/23/17 01:09 PM
09/23/17 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,085
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,085
New Jersey
Straight 40wt and 15w-40 is what is mostly sold for such size marine diesels. Different areas have different popular products. Texaco Ursa was tops in the VI, as I understand it, shell is more popular on other islands and in Latin America, etc.

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524089
09/23/17 02:54 PM
09/23/17 02:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,194
Slovenia EU
Kamele0N Offline
Kamele0N  Offline
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,194
Slovenia EU


2011 Hyundai i30 1.4 CVVT Shell Helix Ultra 5w40
1997 Toyota Landcruiser KZJ95 3.0 TD Shell Rimula R6M 10w40
Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524137
09/23/17 03:43 PM
09/23/17 03:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 11,816
Idaho
I am not sure if any mfgs of high speed diesel engines indicate the use syn oil unless in arctic operating conditions.


"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf
Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524146
09/23/17 03:59 PM
09/23/17 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
DeepFriar Offline OP
DeepFriar  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
Over the years the diesel guys may have worried most about shear (just guessing) and so have stuck with "what works". And given that the engine makers sell mostly into commercial environments their customers have always been nickel shavers so very little incentive to spend multiples on synth. I wonder if that mindset is changing as they gradually lose the lubricity of high sulfur fuels? Just blue skying here today guys. A friend of mine down in Florida is looking at a boat with diesels and it just got me wondering. Thanks for the responses.

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524212
09/23/17 05:37 PM
09/23/17 05:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
DeepFriar Offline OP
DeepFriar  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
Further reading indicates that these are considered "high speed" diesel engines (typically operating in continuous cycle operation at between 1800-2300 RPM depending on the engine). There are synthetics available but apparently not in widespread use.

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524215
09/23/17 05:39 PM
09/23/17 05:39 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 591
Indiana
njohnson Offline
njohnson  Offline
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 591
Indiana
Not sure of the sump capacity of this Cummins KTA38 engine, but, I found this video of Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 being used in it.

I don't know what the engine makers recommend, this video shows the result of running the Delvac 1 synthetic in the marine engine.

I noticed on the back of the new Delvac 1 bottles that they say it can be used in marine engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieFerSypBGc

Last edited by njohnson; 09/23/17 05:40 PM.
Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524221
09/23/17 05:55 PM
09/23/17 05:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
How big and slow? have several CAT C280-16 engines running either MobilGard or Castrol MHP ... these things hold over 400 gallons so not too many folks want to pony up for synthetic - mostly after HTHS and high TBN.

Of course marine engines - Wartsila etc - get even larger ...

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524243
09/23/17 06:16 PM
09/23/17 06:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 5,839
Kalifornia Kollective
Yeah, when I think marine diesel, I think Mobilgard - or equal. They don't start in freezing air conditions, so 0W and 5W are kinda not needed. Bilges are usually well above freezing, even idle dockside. Gen-sets and other systems keep the engine rooms above freezing ...

They usually don't change oil until lab says it's time. Sample every 200 hours though. 400 gallons is not a very large lube oil tank/bunker. Some on big ships go 1,000 gallons easy. Oil change involves a truck and trailer combo. Pump old oil out into one and new oil in from the other.

Many run bulk oil filters (towel chests) and centrifugal by-pass filters. So their oil stays pretty clean for a long time. Ships will top up the chemistry with add-pak doses at 400~500 hours if the oil is OK per lab ...

Most Chief Engineers can do basic lab analysis right on board. Samples are sent when in-port on company schedule as back-up to on-board testing while underway ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4524394
09/23/17 10:17 PM
09/23/17 10:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
DeepFriar Offline OP
DeepFriar  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
These were Cummins KTA19, 19 liter engines my friend was talking. And a continuous duty cycle at something under 1800 RPM (he said it would do 8-9 knots at 1200 so any work they've done wasn't high stress). The engines appear to have been well kept and have about 8,000 hours on them and 12 years old. That was an impressive video on the Delvac! To me what's nice about these larger marine engines is that they haven't gone down the high power density road and sweated too much mass out of them so they're still durable. Beautiful things.

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: BrocLuno] #4524656
09/24/17 09:45 AM
09/24/17 09:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
DeepFriar Offline OP
DeepFriar  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Yeah, when I think marine diesel, I think Mobilgard - or equal. They don't start in freezing air conditions, so 0W and 5W are kinda not needed. Bilges are usually well above freezing, even idle dockside. Gen-sets and other systems keep the engine rooms above freezing ...

They usually don't change oil until lab says it's time. Sample every 200 hours though. 400 gallons is not a very large lube oil tank/bunker. Some on big ships go 1,000 gallons easy. Oil change involves a truck and trailer combo. Pump old oil out into one and new oil in from the other.

Many run bulk oil filters (towel chests) and centrifugal by-pass filters. So their oil stays pretty clean for a long time. Ships will top up the chemistry with add-pak doses at 400~500 hours if the oil is OK per lab ...

Most Chief Engineers can do basic lab analysis right on board. Samples are sent when in-port on company schedule as back-up to on-board testing while underway ...


What sort of marine enginnering were you working in earlier in life Broc?

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: DeepFriar] #4525240
09/24/17 09:08 PM
09/24/17 09:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
DeepFriar Offline OP
DeepFriar  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,434
Georgia
Mobil's marine site has a very good "brochure" called Signum Technical Guide at the bottom of the page about their marine Signum oil analysis service. It's a .pdf file link from this page:

https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/marine/services/signum-oil-analysis-program

The last few pages contain a slew of understandable reference data including elemental analysis about the different variables tested for which goes way beyond anything Blackstone ever does. And that's fine but, like I said, the detail here is interesting to a layman like me and maybe worth the look for others. Hey, who knew a white blood cell was 25 microns? We always talk about filtering below that level. grin

Re: Lube for larger marine diesels [Re: BrocLuno] #4532181
10/02/17 04:44 PM
10/02/17 04:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
4WD Offline
4WD  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 6,986
Texas
They are 440 each and eight engines - over 3500 gallons so point was a bit much to consider synthetic


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