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5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper #4523777
09/23/17 07:55 AM
09/23/17 07:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 343
PA
Patrick0525 Offline OP
Patrick0525  Offline OP

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 343
PA
Just purchased a ES350 2009 @40K from wife's friend who was NOT religious in changing the oil based on time but changed it every 5000miles.

This is what I know so far on the OCI.

Lexus dealer : 32K June 2015
unknown 3rd party: 37K unknown
Myself : 41K Sept 2017 (Mobil 1 5W-30) + Toyota oil filter

My mistake, the oil collection sample was at the very end of the oil change. ( I had to run in to get the bottle ).
It took me a while to fill the bottle.

Should I be concerned about the higher than average copper?
I have a Venza V6 (same engine model) 2014 and the copper level is 1 or 2 ppm.




Last edited by Patrick0525; 09/23/17 08:01 AM. Reason: edit

'14 Toyota Venza 3.5L 80K mi
TGMO 0W-20
PP 0W-20/Fram Ultra filter(spring/summer)


Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525] #4523788
09/23/17 08:16 AM
09/23/17 08:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 458
North Carolina
Urshurak776 Offline
Urshurak776  Offline

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 458
North Carolina
Hard to really tell. Maybe run the Mobil one for a couple of oil changes then send off a sample to see. Other than the slightly high copper it looks okay to me.


2012 Hyundai Santa Fe, 138,000 miles, Havoline Pro DS Full Syn 5W-30, WIX Filter.
2014 Kia Rio, 80,000 miles, Havoline Pro DS Syn 5W-30, WIX Filter.
Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525] #4523791
09/23/17 08:19 AM
09/23/17 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,002
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 11,002
ROCHESTER, NY
Well, 5 ppm of copper doesn't look to bad to me but, I may be entirely wrong.
Myself, I'd run Oh IDK, ~two 2k-3k mile OCIs with conventional oil and see if this rinses the engine some. This is what I have done to pre owned cars that I didn't know the exact maintenance of the vehicle.

It could be this particular sample and another UOA could tell you more.

Last edited by Char Baby; 09/23/17 08:27 AM.

"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525] #4523806
09/23/17 08:40 AM
09/23/17 08:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,301
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,301
The Midwest
My opinion as a former Honda dealer and now UPS semi mechanic? Your bearings are wearing faster than they should.
If you continue to get higher than normal copper reading and it's from the bearings , it can take a sudden nosedive on a single bearing
and you can end up with a rod knock.



Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual

Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: skyactiv] #4523827
09/23/17 09:00 AM
09/23/17 09:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 763
Herndon, VA
btanchors Offline
btanchors  Offline

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 763
Herndon, VA
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
My opinion as a former Honda dealer and now UPS semi mechanic? Your bearings are wearing faster than they should.
...



I disagree with this. First, I do not believe Toyota uses copper in its bearings any more - they are aluminum.

Second, some variations of this engine have oil coolers in them. I have a 2017 GS350. On its first and second UOAs, at 873 and 2471 miles showed 88 and 14 ppm of copper respectively. This is not bearing material but is from the copper-clad engine oil cooler. I have seen this many times on Toyota engines.

Finally, the copper reading the OP shows could also be from a gasoline additive, or possibly, even from an engine repair in which a copper-based anti-seize or gasket sealant could have been used.

The best answer, given the lack of data on history, is that he needs to perform another UOA while the vehicle maintenance is known and under his control.

Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525] #4523845
09/23/17 09:29 AM
09/23/17 09:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,245
Mahzurrah!
KCJeep Offline
KCJeep  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,245
Mahzurrah!
A 5ppm copper reading is completely irrelevant, and splitting gnat hairs at it's finest.


2018 VW Passat GT VR6 - 6k - Valvoline MST 5w40 - VW OEM filter
2012 KIA Sedona 96k - PP HM 10w30
2009 Ford Focus 135k - Supertech FS HM 5w30
2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, gone but not forgotten.
Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: skyactiv] #4523881
09/23/17 10:23 AM
09/23/17 10:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 343
PA
Patrick0525 Offline OP
Patrick0525  Offline OP

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 343
PA
air temp is at 80F
From the garage(sitting overnite) to the 2nd stop signin the development(3 min away), I hear a small knock pulling away from the 2nd stop sign.
It does go away when the car is fully warmed up.

Thanks for the information and keeping my fingers crossed.


'14 Toyota Venza 3.5L 80K mi
TGMO 0W-20
PP 0W-20/Fram Ultra filter(spring/summer)


Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525] #4523887
09/23/17 10:31 AM
09/23/17 10:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,161
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Online content
OVERKILL  Online Content

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,161
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Patrick0525
air temp is at 80F
From the garage(sitting overnite) to the 2nd stop signin the development(3 min away), I hear a small knock pulling away from the 2nd stop sign.
It does go away when the car is fully warmed up.

Thanks for the information and keeping my fingers crossed.


Probably a touch of piston slap. If it were rod bearing wear it would get worse as the oil thins.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: KCJeep] #4523892
09/23/17 10:37 AM
09/23/17 10:37 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 178
Virginia
GravelRoad Offline
GravelRoad  Offline

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 178
Virginia
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A 5ppm copper reading is completely irrelevant, and splitting gnat hairs at it's finest.

^This


2016 Subaru Outback Premium 2.5. PP 5w30 oem filter
2018 Hyundai Kona 1.6T. Lifetime dealer free oil/filter change
Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: GravelRoad] #4523943
09/23/17 11:40 AM
09/23/17 11:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,257
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,257
OH
It could have been from not having regular oil changes and/or collecting the sample at the very end of the drain. I wouldn't do anything different regarding an early oil change since we're only talking about 5 parts per million.

Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525] #4524099
09/23/17 03:04 PM
09/23/17 03:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,920
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
SirTanon Offline
SirTanon  Offline

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,920
Phoenix, Arizona - USA
One UOA isn't going to tell you squat. You need multiple to give you a trend/history. It's all about comparing past numbers to current.

IMHO, the numbers aren't 'scary' at this point just taken at face value.

.. Heck, the last UOA on my Fusion had very similar numbers for wear metals. Then again, it had some top end done about 12,000 miles ago.. so who knows..


2010 Ford Fusion SE - 2.5 liter/6F35 Trans - 271,000mi
2014 Nissan Altima SL - 2.5 liter/CVT - 62,000mi
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