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#4523777 - 09/23/17 07:55 AM 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper
Patrick0525 Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 199
Loc: PA
Just purchased a ES350 2009 @40K from wife's friend who was NOT religious in changing the oil based on time but changed it every 5000miles.

This is what I know so far on the OCI.

Lexus dealer : 32K June 2015
unknown 3rd party: 37K unknown
Myself : 41K Sept 2017 (Mobil 1 5W-30) + Toyota oil filter

My mistake, the oil collection sample was at the very end of the oil change. ( I had to run in to get the bottle ).
It took me a while to fill the bottle.

Should I be concerned about the higher than average copper?
I have a Venza V6 (same engine model) 2014 and the copper level is 1 or 2 ppm.





Edited by Patrick0525 (09/23/17 08:01 AM)
Edit Reason: edit
_________________________
'14 Toyota Venza 3.5L 70K mi
TGMO 0W-20/Toyota filter (winter)
PP 0W-20/Fram Ultra filter(spring/summer)



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#4523788 - 09/23/17 08:16 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525]
Urshurak776 Offline


Registered: 08/21/12
Posts: 447
Loc: North Carolina
Hard to really tell. Maybe run the Mobil one for a couple of oil changes then send off a sample to see. Other than the slightly high copper it looks okay to me.
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#4523791 - 09/23/17 08:19 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525]
Char Baby Offline


Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 10084
Loc: ROCHESTER, NY
Well, 5 ppm of copper doesn't look to bad to me but, I may be entirely wrong.
Myself, I'd run Oh IDK, ~two 2k-3k mile OCIs with conventional oil and see if this rinses the engine some. This is what I have done to pre owned cars that I didn't know the exact maintenance of the vehicle.

It could be this particular sample and another UOA could tell you more.


Edited by Char Baby (09/23/17 08:27 AM)
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#4523806 - 09/23/17 08:40 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525]
skyactiv Online   content


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4507
Loc: The Midwest
My opinion as a former Honda dealer and now UPS semi mechanic? Your bearings are wearing faster than they should.
If you continue to get higher than normal copper reading and it's from the bearings , it can take a sudden nosedive on a single bearing
and you can end up with a rod knock.

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#4523827 - 09/23/17 09:00 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: skyactiv]
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 761
Loc: Herndon, VA
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
My opinion as a former Honda dealer and now UPS semi mechanic? Your bearings are wearing faster than they should.
...



I disagree with this. First, I do not believe Toyota uses copper in its bearings any more - they are aluminum.

Second, some variations of this engine have oil coolers in them. I have a 2017 GS350. On its first and second UOAs, at 873 and 2471 miles showed 88 and 14 ppm of copper respectively. This is not bearing material but is from the copper-clad engine oil cooler. I have seen this many times on Toyota engines.

Finally, the copper reading the OP shows could also be from a gasoline additive, or possibly, even from an engine repair in which a copper-based anti-seize or gasket sealant could have been used.

The best answer, given the lack of data on history, is that he needs to perform another UOA while the vehicle maintenance is known and under his control.

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#4523845 - 09/23/17 09:29 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525]
KCJeep Offline


Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 7020
Loc: Mahzurrah!
A 5ppm copper reading is completely irrelevant, and splitting gnat hairs at it's finest.
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#4523881 - 09/23/17 10:23 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: skyactiv]
Patrick0525 Offline


Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 199
Loc: PA
air temp is at 80F
From the garage(sitting overnite) to the 2nd stop signin the development(3 min away), I hear a small knock pulling away from the 2nd stop sign.
It does go away when the car is fully warmed up.

Thanks for the information and keeping my fingers crossed.
_________________________
'14 Toyota Venza 3.5L 70K mi
TGMO 0W-20/Toyota filter (winter)
PP 0W-20/Fram Ultra filter(spring/summer)



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#4523887 - 09/23/17 10:31 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525]
OVERKILL Offline


Registered: 04/28/08
Posts: 36603
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Patrick0525
air temp is at 80F
From the garage(sitting overnite) to the 2nd stop signin the development(3 min away), I hear a small knock pulling away from the 2nd stop sign.
It does go away when the car is fully warmed up.

Thanks for the information and keeping my fingers crossed.


Probably a touch of piston slap. If it were rod bearing wear it would get worse as the oil thins.
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#4523892 - 09/23/17 10:37 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: KCJeep]
GravelRoad Offline


Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 170
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
A 5ppm copper reading is completely irrelevant, and splitting gnat hairs at it's finest.

^This
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#4523943 - 09/23/17 11:40 AM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: GravelRoad]
SatinSilver Offline


Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 10341
Loc: OH
It could have been from not having regular oil changes and/or collecting the sample at the very end of the drain. I wouldn't do anything different regarding an early oil change since we're only talking about 5 parts per million.

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#4524099 - 09/23/17 03:04 PM Re: 5W-30 2009 Lexus 350- high copper [Re: Patrick0525]
SirTanon Online   content


Registered: 06/23/14
Posts: 2253
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona - USA
One UOA isn't going to tell you squat. You need multiple to give you a trend/history. It's all about comparing past numbers to current.

IMHO, the numbers aren't 'scary' at this point just taken at face value.

.. Heck, the last UOA on my Fusion had very similar numbers for wear metals. Then again, it had some top end done about 12,000 miles ago.. so who knows..
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