how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear?

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I'm talking about magnets in oil drain plugs. I use them in my 3 toyotas for several years now and every time i change oil i write down the amount of magnetic fuzz (almost nothing/minimal/mild/moderate/severe).
I was going though my notes (that were not well organized) today and noticed (for the first time) that amount of metal correlates with type of oil. some Pennzoil products (PYB,PP,QSUD) and German Castrol gave the lowest metal wear, M1 and G-oil gave slightly more metal, followed by Maxlife synth, and the worse was QS Qadvanced.

I vaguely remember one of the oil companies advertising lower wear compared to M1. Does one remember which one it was?
 
I use gold plug.

I really dont notice much difference from oil change to oil change and any correlation to
the type of oil used.

I always have a smudge of gray paste when I clean off magnet onto a white paper towel.

Do you really notice a difference?

To me it would be too difficult to draw a conclusion.
 
Originally Posted By: VNTS


Do you really notice a difference?



very much so. my first car i used a magnetic plug was corolla. Initially it had the usual amounts of magnetic fuzz (these are small particles below the size trapped in oil filter), about 1mm thick, that I semiquantitatively rate as mild. However, in one OCI when oil consumption suddenly started, there was several fold increase with a mushroom forming on the plug. this is when i realized the rings plugged up and accelerated the ring/piston wear. After aggressive resuscitation with multiple piston soaks, the wear (and oil consumption) went back to normal, but i kept monitoring it for that and later other cars. I didn't know you could discriminate normal wear levels until i just compared my notes and realized for some oils there was "almost no magnet dust", while for some others it was moderate and in some cases "worse than average." this is for the same car, same commuting driving with similar OCI (I do 12 month OCI on my cars, so all seasons represented), and using same OEM oil filter.

from now on, i'll make an attempt to measure the height of the fuzz. BTW, i rotate through different oils as I only buy free after rebate or deeply discounted synthetics these days.
 
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I use gold plug.

I really dont notice much difference from oil change to oil change and any correlation to
the type of oil used.

I always have a smudge of gray paste when I clean off magnet onto a white paper towel.

Do you really notice a difference?

To me it would be too difficult to draw a conclusion.




Sounds like moly. Is molybdenum magnetic? I found one source that says it is paramagnetic. That's a new term for me so I had to look it up. I'll stick with moly as the answer.
 
The ones wih no magnetic dust were trapping it in the sludge they were forming. :p.

The others cleaned the sludge and releast the wear metals. Lol.
 
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Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: VNTS


Do you really notice a difference?



very much so. my first car i used a magnetic plug was corolla. Initially it had the usual amounts of magnetic fuzz (these are small particles below the size trapped in oil filter), about 1mm thick, that I semiquantitatively rate as mild. However, in one OCI when oil consumption suddenly started, there was several fold increase with a mushroom forming on the plug. this is when i realized the rings plugged up and accelerated the ring/piston wear. After aggressive resuscitation with multiple piston soaks, the wear (and oil consumption) went back to normal, but i kept monitoring it for that and later other cars. I didn't know you could discriminate normal wear levels until i just compared my notes and realized for some oils there was "almost no magnet dust", while for some others it was moderate and in some cases "worse than average." this is for the same car, same commuting driving with similar OCI (I do 12 month OCI on my cars, so all seasons represented), and using same OEM oil filter.

from now on, i'll make an attempt to measure the height of the fuzz. BTW, i rotate through different oils as I only buy free after rebate or deeply discounted synthetics these days.


The proper way to analyze would be to compare mass. You will need a high precision balance to get good data
 
I don't use magnetic plugs or filter magnets. I usually can't find anything shiny in used filters, can't pick up anything stirring the drained oil with a magnet, and see nothing in the drained oil, which is surprisingly clean-looking from the Prius. Where are all those ferrous particles hiding, or do they simply not exist?
 
I think you would have to cross check and eliminate other factors such as ambient temp, average travel times, etc. Before you could make a conclusion it is the oil.
 
Originally Posted By: CR94
I don't use magnetic plugs or filter magnets. I usually can't find anything shiny in used filters, can't pick up anything stirring the drained oil with a magnet, and see nothing in the drained oil, which is surprisingly clean-looking from the Prius. Where are all those ferrous particles hiding,?


In your lack of adequate detection methods.
 
I use magnets on hi-po motors that will be abused on the track (drag racing). I know they will shed metal, I just want the Fe metals to be anywhere but embedded in the piston skirts. Once that happens, the cylinder walls will score and it's rebuild time. I also use valley debris screens. Sometimes these engine come apart dramatically. Most times it's just a whimper ...

For street cars/trucks with OEM motors, just a magnetic drain plug
smile.gif


Fuzz varies with whether I'm cleaning a motor with BG-109, or just running it ...
 
Originally Posted By: CR94
I don't use magnetic plugs or filter magnets. I usually can't find anything shiny in used filters,


The problem with your "theory" is - the particles are not shiny!

About 5,000 miles worth on these neodymium magnets:

full-76552-8628-img_0036.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Interesting, but wouldn't the filter have caught that stuff?


Maybe yes, maybe no?

That wasn't the point - I want to be able to observe ferrous debris before it gets lost in the paper folds.

When you wipe the magnets off with your finger, there is NO GRITTINESS.

NONE.

These particles are very, very fine. And very dark gray colored.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I'm talking about magnets in oil drain plugs. I use them in my 3 toyotas for several years now and every time i change oil i write down the amount of magnetic fuzz (almost nothing/minimal/mild/moderate/severe).
I was going though my notes (that were not well organized) today and noticed (for the first time) that amount of metal correlates with type of oil. some Pennzoil products (PYB,PP,QSUD) and German Castrol gave the lowest metal wear, M1 and G-oil gave slightly more metal, followed by Maxlife synth, and the worse was QS Qadvanced.

I vaguely remember one of the oil companies advertising lower wear compared to M1. Does one remember which one it was?


I too use Gold Plugs, to me, its a no brainer using a magnetic oil plug.

However I do not think its possible to monitor wear by oil type based on what the plug looks like when changing the oil.
The one difference would be catastrophic failure or an engine part but other then that...
Driving conditions vary different times of year, stuff sloshes around the pan and may or may not come out on the first change (not everything is drained when draining the oil unless you are removing the pan and wiping it down)

Also keep in mind some oils have trace amounts of iron in them from the start.

Anyway, just my feelings.. I never really much thought about it, maybe your right, yet all I know, it wont matter much in the life of the engine, any properly designed engine should last 200,000 + miles without a lubrication caused failure if using the recommended oil and OCI (or better)
 
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Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Interesting, but wouldn't the filter have caught that stuff?


Maybe yes, maybe no?

That wasn't the point - I want to be able to observe ferrous debris before it gets lost in the paper folds.

When you wipe the magnets off with your finger, there is NO GRITTINESS.

NONE.

These particles are very, very fine. And very dark gray colored.


Excellent point, you are 100% correct.
As far as magnetic plugs, for me, its a no brainer and should be no controversy about it, I dont bash someone if they choose to use some questional premium cost oil filter at every oil change, one would anyone discount using a one time cost magnet?
A magnet knows no limits, where a fiter can only filter down to a certain size or else oil would not flow through it.

Whatever floats one boat and makes you happy, after all, a properly designed engine will go 200,000 + miles with no lubrication issues no matter what you do to it as long as you change the filter and oil with the cheapest brand possible that meets the requirements.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy

Anyway, just my feelings.. I never really much thought about it, maybe your right, yet all I know, it wont matter much in the life of the engine, any properly designed engine should last 200,000 + miles without a lubrication caused failure if using the recommended oil and OCI (or better)



Why so conservative I feel if I don't get 300,000 plus out of my Toyota I made a bad purchase?
 
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I guess I don't see what a magnet does besides feed curiosity. What exactly is a lot of metal particles on an engine? One may see a nice OCI to OCI comparison if they take photos, but that's about it. You would also need to compare this to OTHER engines under similar conditions with similar miles, daily usage, maintenance history etc. A UOA is the only real way to monitor oil and engine wear. They also have the universal averages on file too.

Also, without the magnet, the particles just go into the filter.
 
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I thought magnetic drain plugs sounded like an experiment with no downside until somebody raised the specter of a ferrous particle becoming magnetized and sticking to a critical engine component instead of being filtered out or just circulating harmlessly.
Sounds extremely unlikely, but I think it's also quite unlikely that there's much of a possible benefit.
 
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