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how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? #4522449
09/21/17 04:15 PM
09/21/17 04:15 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
friendly_jacek Offline OP
friendly_jacek  Offline OP
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
I'm talking about magnets in oil drain plugs. I use them in my 3 toyotas for several years now and every time i change oil i write down the amount of magnetic fuzz (almost nothing/minimal/mild/moderate/severe).
I was going though my notes (that were not well organized) today and noticed (for the first time) that amount of metal correlates with type of oil. some Pennzoil products (PYB,PP,QSUD) and German Castrol gave the lowest metal wear, M1 and G-oil gave slightly more metal, followed by Maxlife synth, and the worse was QS Qadvanced.

I vaguely remember one of the oil companies advertising lower wear compared to M1. Does one remember which one it was?

Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522461
09/21/17 04:28 PM
09/21/17 04:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,679
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,679
Wet side WA
I think a UOA would give you a much better idea. After all how much of this is getting caught by your filter?


2004 Corolla 128202
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74615
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522462
09/21/17 04:33 PM
09/21/17 04:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,690
NE
VNTS Offline
VNTS  Offline
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,690
NE
I use gold plug.

I really dont notice much difference from oil change to oil change and any correlation to
the type of oil used.

I always have a smudge of gray paste when I clean off magnet onto a white paper towel.

Do you really notice a difference?

To me it would be too difficult to draw a conclusion.

Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: VNTS] #4522476
09/21/17 04:49 PM
09/21/17 04:49 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
friendly_jacek Offline OP
friendly_jacek  Offline OP
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,614
southeast US
Originally Posted By: VNTS


Do you really notice a difference?



very much so. my first car i used a magnetic plug was corolla. Initially it had the usual amounts of magnetic fuzz (these are small particles below the size trapped in oil filter), about 1mm thick, that I semiquantitatively rate as mild. However, in one OCI when oil consumption suddenly started, there was several fold increase with a mushroom forming on the plug. this is when i realized the rings plugged up and accelerated the ring/piston wear. After aggressive resuscitation with multiple piston soaks, the wear (and oil consumption) went back to normal, but i kept monitoring it for that and later other cars. I didn't know you could discriminate normal wear levels until i just compared my notes and realized for some oils there was "almost no magnet dust", while for some others it was moderate and in some cases "worse than average." this is for the same car, same commuting driving with similar OCI (I do 12 month OCI on my cars, so all seasons represented), and using same OEM oil filter.

from now on, i'll make an attempt to measure the height of the fuzz. BTW, i rotate through different oils as I only buy free after rebate or deeply discounted synthetics these days.

Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: VNTS] #4522482
09/21/17 04:55 PM
09/21/17 04:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,955
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 6,955
...
Originally Posted By: VNTS
I use gold plug.

I really dont notice much difference from oil change to oil change and any correlation to
the type of oil used.

I always have a smudge of gray paste when I clean off magnet onto a white paper towel.

Do you really notice a difference?

To me it would be too difficult to draw a conclusion.




Sounds like moly. Is molybdenum magnetic? I found one source that says it is paramagnetic. That's a new term for me so I had to look it up. I'll stick with moly as the answer.


Cannot see signatures any longer so it doesn’t matter.
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522502
09/21/17 05:15 PM
09/21/17 05:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 819
texas
danez_yoda Offline
danez_yoda  Offline
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 819
texas
The ones wih no magnetic dust were trapping it in the sludge they were forming. :p.

The others cleaned the sludge and releast the wear metals. Lol.

Last edited by danez_yoda; 09/21/17 05:15 PM.
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522518
09/21/17 05:34 PM
09/21/17 05:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,804
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,804
Crawfordville FL
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: VNTS


Do you really notice a difference?



very much so. my first car i used a magnetic plug was corolla. Initially it had the usual amounts of magnetic fuzz (these are small particles below the size trapped in oil filter), about 1mm thick, that I semiquantitatively rate as mild. However, in one OCI when oil consumption suddenly started, there was several fold increase with a mushroom forming on the plug. this is when i realized the rings plugged up and accelerated the ring/piston wear. After aggressive resuscitation with multiple piston soaks, the wear (and oil consumption) went back to normal, but i kept monitoring it for that and later other cars. I didn't know you could discriminate normal wear levels until i just compared my notes and realized for some oils there was "almost no magnet dust", while for some others it was moderate and in some cases "worse than average." this is for the same car, same commuting driving with similar OCI (I do 12 month OCI on my cars, so all seasons represented), and using same OEM oil filter.

from now on, i'll make an attempt to measure the height of the fuzz. BTW, i rotate through different oils as I only buy free after rebate or deeply discounted synthetics these days.


The proper way to analyze would be to compare mass. You will need a high precision balance to get good data


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522546
09/21/17 06:15 PM
09/21/17 06:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,750
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,750
Western S.C.
I don't use magnetic plugs or filter magnets. I usually can't find anything shiny in used filters, can't pick up anything stirring the drained oil with a magnet, and see nothing in the drained oil, which is surprisingly clean-looking from the Prius. Where are all those ferrous particles hiding, or do they simply not exist?


2011 Toyota Prius now at 95K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522585
09/21/17 06:50 PM
09/21/17 06:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
ArcticDriver Offline
ArcticDriver  Offline
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,139
USA
I think you would have to cross check and eliminate other factors such as ambient temp, average travel times, etc. Before you could make a conclusion it is the oil.


Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: CR94] #4522673
09/21/17 09:04 PM
09/21/17 09:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,825
Taiwan
Originally Posted By: CR94
I don't use magnetic plugs or filter magnets. I usually can't find anything shiny in used filters, can't pick up anything stirring the drained oil with a magnet, and see nothing in the drained oil, which is surprisingly clean-looking from the Prius. Where are all those ferrous particles hiding,?


In your lack of adequate detection methods.

Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522699
09/21/17 09:35 PM
09/21/17 09:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,118
Kalifornia Kollective
BrocLuno Offline
BrocLuno  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 6,118
Kalifornia Kollective
I use magnets on hi-po motors that will be abused on the track (drag racing). I know they will shed metal, I just want the Fe metals to be anywhere but embedded in the piston skirts. Once that happens, the cylinder walls will score and it's rebuild time. I also use valley debris screens. Sometimes these engine come apart dramatically. Most times it's just a whimper ...

For street cars/trucks with OEM motors, just a magnetic drain plug smile

Fuzz varies with whether I'm cleaning a motor with BG-109, or just running it ...


Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: CR94] #4522743
09/21/17 11:32 PM
09/21/17 11:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,443
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,443
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: CR94
I don't use magnetic plugs or filter magnets. I usually can't find anything shiny in used filters,


The problem with your "theory" is - the particles are not shiny!

About 5,000 miles worth on these neodymium magnets:



"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: Linctex] #4522755
09/22/17 12:02 AM
09/22/17 12:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,727
Texas
FZ1 Offline
FZ1  Offline
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,727
Texas
Interesting,but wouldn't the filter have caught that stuff?

Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: friendly_jacek] #4522756
09/22/17 12:02 AM
09/22/17 12:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,780
USA
oldhp Offline
oldhp  Offline
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,780
USA
^^^^^^^^^I like that idea.^^^^^^^^^^^ grin


2018 RAM 1500 3.6/8 speed.
2017 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6
"U kan't fixe it......if'n it ain't broke."
Re: how many of you are using magnets to monitor wear? [Re: FZ1] #4522897
09/22/17 06:22 AM
09/22/17 06:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,443
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,443
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Interesting, but wouldn't the filter have caught that stuff?


Maybe yes, maybe no?

That wasn't the point - I want to be able to observe ferrous debris before it gets lost in the paper folds.

When you wipe the magnets off with your finger, there is NO GRITTINESS.

NONE.

These particles are very, very fine. And very dark gray colored.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
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