VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas

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I'm not at all interested in the vehicle, just interested in seeing if VW switched to a 504 oil for a gas engine in North America yet.
VW is apparently recommending using a VW 504 oil for the V6 model.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Believe the USA has gone to ULSG, and if so, this is a reasonable choice.

Nope, the U.S. did not go to ULSG. EPA just recommended blenders to move to ULSG. Under current leadership at EPA< we can only increase sulfur levels.
And as for VW, I am not sure they know anymore where is their head and where is tail. The offered in Atlas first generation FSI engine, and recommend Low-SAPS oil. Amazing!
 
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What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?
 
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Originally Posted By: skyactiv
VW is apparently recommending using a VW 504 oil for the V6 model.

VW has been listing the 504.00 spec in the US owner manuals for years now, alongside 502.00. Are you saying this new Atlas lists 504.00 only?
 
Both of my MK7 Golf and GTI call for 502.00 and I have been using Mobil 1 0W40.
I will stay with this until I hear something official from VW as to the 504.00
oil.
 
FYI, this is from the owner's manual of a 2014 Jetta...

37203166251_b3ebf8d4d3_o.png
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?

And you are going to bet $6000 engine on the fact that your gas station MIGHT have ULSG?
To tell you immediately that average will be achieved by calculating CA gasoline which is anyway ULSG.
As for increasing sulfur, I was being sarcastic, since this EPA might move and allow lead again.
 
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my 2016 manual also lists 504.00

On the Atlas, the "Think Blue" suggestions for better fuel economy also lists using a low-viscosity oil, like a 5w30 for improved for fuel economy.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00


Does "also" mean "in addition to 502.00"? Or are you saying 504.00 is the only spec it lists?
 
I can't answer the above questions, but I will say the manual for my 2013 GLI lists 502 and 504 oils as acceptable choices (see QP's post above).
I've been running a 504 oil for the last year and a half or two, changed in 5k mile intervals. Running well so far. My car also has the ea888 gen 3 engine, so that may or may not make a difference.
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?


You're understanding of the U.S. ULSG rules is wrong. It is currently not required for refiners to produce ULSG, and refiners have the ability to purchase "credits" to offset the fact that they aren't producing ULSG. This is a misunderstanding that has spread through BITOG for over a year now.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-04-28/pdf/2014-06954.pdf

From the executive summary:

"These early credit provisions, coupled
with the ability to carry over credits
from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (an additional
flexibility being finalized today that was
not part of the proposal), will allow for
early actions to reduce sulfur levels by
some refineries to be used to delay the
need for actions at other refineries until
2020."

I wouldn't count on any changes until at least 2019.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00


Does "also" mean "in addition to 502.00"? Or are you saying 504.00 is the only spec it lists?


In addition to 502.00
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?


You're understanding of the U.S. ULSG rules is wrong. It is currently not required for refiners to produce ULSG, and refiners have the ability to purchase "credits" to offset the fact that they aren't producing ULSG. This is a misunderstanding that has spread through BITOG for over a year now.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-04-28/pdf/2014-06954.pdf

From the executive summary:

"These early credit provisions, coupled
with the ability to carry over credits
from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (an additional
flexibility being finalized today that was
not part of the proposal), will allow for
early actions to reduce sulfur levels by
some refineries to be used to delay the
need for actions at other refineries until
2020."

I wouldn't count on any changes until at least 2019.


Your understanding of my understanding is wrong.

See where I state any batch will vary between 0 and 84 ppm sulfur, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm.

This is due to exchange of credits, smalll refiners exemptions, etc. much like the Tier 2 program, just as I posted.

Read the whole post plus all the material on the EPA web dite.

If a site overconttols (manufactures gasoline < 10 ppm S), it generates credits. There will be a lot of large refiners who overcontrol at their larger refineries and use credits they generate at their smaller refineries, during periods of maintenance such as turnarounds, and for sale. The converse is true of refiners who undercontrol. Per batch max spec is 80 ppm at the refinery gate, 84 ppm at terminals to allow for some minor cross-contamination during transit. These max per batch specs cannot be mofified by credits.

I worked in the industry and blended 1.5 million to 2 million gallons of gasoline a day when I was a blendineer. My wife still works in the industry at an executive level for a major refiner.
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Your understanding of my understanding is wrong.

See where I state any batch will vary between 0 and 84 ppm sulfur, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm.

This is due to exchange of credits, smalll refiners exemptions, etc. much like the Tier 2 program, just as I posted.

Read the whole post plus all the material on the EPA web dite.

If a site overconttols (manufactures gasoline < 10 ppm S), it generates credits. There will be a lot of large refiners who overcontrol at their larger refineries and use credits they generate at their smaller refineries, during periods of maintenance such as turnarounds, and for sale. The converse is true of refiners who undercontrol. Per batch max spec is 80 ppm at the refinery gate, 84 ppm at terminals to allow for some minor cross-contamination during transit. These max per batch specs cannot be mofified by credits.

I worked in the industry and blended 1.5 million to 2 million gallons of gasoline a day when I was a blendineer. My wife still works in the industry at an executive level for a major refiner.


Appreciate the clarification, you certainly know your stuff. However, those no way of knowing if we're getting Euro-like ULSG <10ppm at the pump, and should choose oil accordingly.
 
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Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?

And you are going to bet $6000 engine on the fact that your gas station MIGHT have ULSG?
To tell you immediately that average will be achieved by calculating CA gasoline which is anyway ULSG.
As for increasing sulfur, I was being sarcastic, since this EPA might move and allow lead again.


No, I wouldn't personally purchase a vehicle that had requirements that weren't met by what I could purchase to operate it.

If I had such an engine as the OP posted, that still allowed VW 502, I would purchase that personally.

I find the elements of your post that requirements for refiners WRT gasoline sulfur are simply recommendations less than factual. This has been untrue my entire motoring life that goes back to the 70's. Total exhaust toxics modeling however really took off in the 1990's with ever increasing data collection and reporting requirements from refiners to the government on gasoline blended. I've directly participated in this including being the lead design & modeling engineer for first studies then multi-million dollar projects on MSAT 2 rules last decade as an example.

If you dislike a manufacturer's oil specs, why don't you choose to address that with the engine manufacturer?
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?

And you are going to bet $6000 engine on the fact that your gas station MIGHT have ULSG?
To tell you immediately that average will be achieved by calculating CA gasoline which is anyway ULSG.
As for increasing sulfur, I was being sarcastic, since this EPA might move and allow lead again.


No, I wouldn't personally purchase a vehicle that had requirements that weren't met by what I could purchase to operate it.

If I had such an engine as the OP posted, that still allowed VW 502, I would purchase that personally.

I find the elements of your post that requirements for refiners WRT gasoline sulfur are simply recommendations less than factual. This has been untrue my entire motoring life that goes back to the 70's. Total exhaust toxics modeling however really took off in the 1990's with ever increasing data collection and reporting requirements from refiners to the government on gasoline blended. I've directly participated in this including being the lead design & modeling engineer for first studies then multi-million dollar projects on MSAT 2 rules last decade as an example.

If you dislike a manufacturer's oil specs, why don't you choose to address that with the engine manufacturer?

I did UOA of VW 504.00/507.00 (by the way, i was involved in developing one of the VW 504.00/507.00 oils, since we are talking here about who did what), did you? Do you know what is available TBN of Mobil1 5W30 ESP in VW 2.0T engine after 3K interval in Colorado? 1.9! And Mobil1 0W40 after 5K in same engine? 2.7.
So, my question to you is? Does Costco gas station in Colorado Springs, CO have Premium with 10ppm or less? Yes or No? Since you have been involved in multimillion dollar projects, you know facts, please help us out here.
 
Why don't you get the CofA of every batch of gasoline delivered to whatever particular station you might possibly be referring to and get some facts yourself?

I choose not to pull stuff from between my left & right hip pockets.
 
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And to add to the misinformation, there's a sticker under the hood that says "Use only oil that expressly complies with VW 502.00". The folks who pull together the user's manual should speak to the sticker people.
 
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