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Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? #4517668
09/16/17 07:59 AM
09/16/17 07:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,130
Michigan
ZZman Offline OP
ZZman  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,130
Michigan
I know I have seen a couple miles per gallon difference when using it. How about others?


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. PP HM 5w-30 and Fram Ultra
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Motul 7100 10w-40 and K&N
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517675
09/16/17 08:07 AM
09/16/17 08:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,510
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Online content
JohnnyJohnson  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,510
Wet side WA
I'm watching it. I don't have enough to go on yet but since I change to QSUD it would appear I've had a small MPG increase.


2004 Corolla 126649
Out: VML 5w-30 TG4967 OCI 5007 Miles
In: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 122537 7-18-18
2006 Duramax 74478
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517678
09/16/17 08:10 AM
09/16/17 08:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
See if that couple of miles per gallon increase holds over the next 5K or so.
It won't.
A couple of miles per gallon would be huge.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517680
09/16/17 08:12 AM
09/16/17 08:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,183
Midwest, Illinois
beanoil Offline
beanoil  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,183
Midwest, Illinois
Beat to death in lots of threads.
Some see results like you say, some don't.
I run it in scooters and carbed bikes with slides. It does keep them from being sticky long term
No mileage changes in a 2012 T&C after LOTS of testing.
Poor choice for diesel lubricity also.


beanoil: Tough under heat, real dirty afterwards.
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517693
09/16/17 08:35 AM
09/16/17 08:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,030
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline
skyactiv  Offline
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,030
The Midwest
The problem is that people suddenly change how they drive the second they start such an experiment and attribute the instant jump in fuel economy to MMO, thicker oil for "better ring seal", a magnet on the fuel line and so on.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Wanted: 2019 Ford Ranger
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517708
09/16/17 08:54 AM
09/16/17 08:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,275
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,275
Upper Midwest
Although you may see a change in MPG by some method, there isn't a way to attribute it to the variable of MMO. In real-world driving there are a myriad of variables, most of which you cannot control. A long time ago I linked an article on here about measuring real-world fuel economy and it showed just how difficult that is to accomplish. One thing that was absolutely needed was to use standardized test fuel since they showed that the energy density of gasoline varied up to 4% even at the same gas station. Add that to all the other variables of daily driving and any perceived fuel economy change by any one variable quickly disappears into the noise.

Additive companies know this and they exploit it to their advantage. It's not rocket science to determine in a laboratory whether some additive increases fuel economy or not. There are standardized tests for just this purpose, yet none of the additive companies I've ever seen publish such data in their literature or on their websites. Those tests are not expensive to perform (we did it in a class in college) and the results are repeatable and accurate because they eliminate all variables except the one under test (in this case the additive). Why do you suppose the additive companies never publish this data but instead rely on useless testimonials and "field reports" from users?

Remember, it's not enough just to measure something. You have to be able to attribute it to a specific variable, which in this case is entirely impossible to do in real-world driving whether it is an additive or a change in motor oil.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517721
09/16/17 09:17 AM
09/16/17 09:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,126
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 7,126
Waco, TX
The biggest reason to use MMO in a gasoline engine is not to increase mileage (it might a tiny bit) but to keep things clean. It makes a HUGE difference in piston aircraft engines when added to the fuel. I like it to help keep intake valves clean. I never add more than recommended dose.

MMO does indeed make a significant mpg difference in diesel engines, at least in IDI engines. I have tested it thoroughly in GM 5.7 and 6.2 Diesels, Ford 6.9 and 7.3 IDI diesels, and others (farm & heavy equipment) and it always increases fuel economy a small amount. I've never done the math to see if the diesel saved was worth the $3.88 a quart that it costs (it definitely at least breaks even). But it really does help mileage and cold dtarting, not sure why.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517729
09/16/17 09:34 AM
09/16/17 09:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
Seattle-ish, WA
Oro_O Offline
Oro_O  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
Seattle-ish, WA
Quote:
Although you may see a change in MPG by some method, there isn't a way to attribute it to the variable of MMO.


There most certainly is. would For example, using the same fuel and then adding the MMO blindly to random tanks of another driver who is blind to the test. I did that.

I did it for six months on her daily driver (2002 Lexus ES) and observed a 2/2.5 mpg boost overall. She would also comment sometimes, "The car runs better, did you do something?" I oberserved a similar boost in my SUV, though not through blind testing like that. I used 3oz/10gallons in both vehicles.

To be honest, I use it for the cleaning and UCL effect, like Linctex outlined. The MPG boost just means it more than pays for itself. It costs about $.05/gallon to use, and I get about $.25 to $.37 equivalent boost in mpg extensions. It's a no-brainer.

Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517733
09/16/17 09:42 AM
09/16/17 09:42 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,826
Columbus,Nebraska
Yah-Tah-Hey Offline
Yah-Tah-Hey  Offline
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,826
Columbus,Nebraska
NO WAY LOL

Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517742
09/16/17 09:54 AM
09/16/17 09:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,066
Columbus Nebraska
old1 Offline
old1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,066
Columbus Nebraska
use it all the time in my 64 and 65 , but not in my 14. don't use it for the mpg's but the lube qualities. I also use lead substitute in the classics.
when I was farming with a John Deere A and a ford 8N, we put it in the bulk fuel barrels all the time. Never had any valve problems as the neighbors etc. that never used anything like it did.


2017 Nissan Frontier 4.0 5w30
1965 Mustang 200 c/4 10w30 QS defy
1964 Ford Ranchero 302 c/4 15/40 Delo
1929 ford model A No filters, and 15/40 oil
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517752
09/16/17 10:13 AM
09/16/17 10:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,983
Southeast Texas
gfh77665 Offline
gfh77665  Offline
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,983
Southeast Texas
I say this every time a MPG thread like this gets started...and I will say it again:

Forget additives. Air up your tires for MPG gains.

Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517756
09/16/17 10:27 AM
09/16/17 10:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,967
MTL, CANADA
Rolla07 Offline
Rolla07  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,967
MTL, CANADA
No, its useless. My gas mileage varies tank to tank with no additives. Maybe a shot of PEA every now and then but thats about all id put in my gas tank besides gas.

Last edited by Rolla07; 09/16/17 10:28 AM.

2007 Corolla Red Pearl 155k miles
PP 0w20 & ST 4967

Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517765
09/16/17 10:46 AM
09/16/17 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,105
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 21,105
Upstate NY
It's a terrible lubricant and an OK cleaner. Any MPG gain is wishful thinking.

Keep your engine maintained using quality synthetic oil and Techron once per oil change.

Forget the snake oils like MMO.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: ZZman] #4517794
09/16/17 11:12 AM
09/16/17 11:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
Seattle-ish, WA
Oro_O Offline
Oro_O  Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,485
Seattle-ish, WA
You have to marvel at all the "flat-earthers" who can look at carefully documented evidence and then say, "Nothing to see here, doesn't work, it's in your head and you made it up."

The willingness to stay ignorant instead of accept or at least investigate evidence is always amusing. And very often harmful.

Re: Have you seen increased mpg using MMO? [Re: Oro_O] #4517814
09/16/17 11:32 AM
09/16/17 11:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,275
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,275
Upper Midwest
It's interesting how some members here on Bitog resort to personal attacks when disagreements arise rather than sticking to technical arguments.

The one thing that is actually missing from the discussion on whether MMO increases fuel economy is "carefully documented evidence". Unfortunately you have it exactly backwards in your assertion.

This subject (like a couple others on here) illustrate the intense desire to believe regardless of whether actual, carefully documented evidence exists or not. There is an ASTM text for fuel economy effects due to oils or additives. Why do you suppose such test results aren't published for MMO? There is an answer for that and it isn't the usual "because it costs too much" or other obfuscation.

Rants like this aren't helping any. What I posted in my earlier post is exactly correct and if you have any argument that it isn't, I'd like to hear it.

Originally Posted By: Oro_O
You have to marvel at all the "flat-earthers" who can look at carefully documented evidence and then say, "Nothing to see here, doesn't work, it's in your head and you made it up."

The willingness to stay ignorant instead of accept or at least investigate evidence is always amusing. And very often harmful.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
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