How does "Universal" CVT fluid work?

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Nov 12, 2013
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I have a '17 CR-V, and like all current Hondas, the CVT fluid is Honda's HCF-2 and NOT the older HMMF/"Honda CVT Fluid". Honda states that the two fluids are specifically neither forward nor backward compatible.

With that in mind, how can there be "Universal" CVT fluids that claim to meet both specs at once? One claiming you can use it as a substitute for, say, Jeep and Nissan fluid, I could understand. But how can a single fluid claim to work with two (unpublished) specs from the same company that the manufacturer states are in conflict?

I'm not due for a CVT fluid change any time soon, but I'm curious...
 
I think its just Honda. Honda has been know to push there fluids quite hard. I too have a 15 CRV i take care of. I thinking about using a universal fluid in there next change which will be the next oil change. Castrols CVT fluid can be had at a reasonably good price. They legally have to accept the warranty if you use fluid that meets or exceeds HCF2. As under magnuson moss warranty act of 1975.
 
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..... how can there be "Universal" CVT fluids that claim to meet both specs at once?

If you read the PDS for Valvoline and Castrol CVT fluid they don't claim "to meet" any spec. Valvoline uses a 'recommended for' and Castrol uses a 'suitable for' listing of appropriate applications. It's the same as what is done with an ATF like MaxLife, eg. covers old Dex/Merc to new Mercon LV and Dex VI

Under warranty, I'd stick with the OEM to cover any warranty issues that might arise. After that, I'd have no fear using either Valvoline or Castrol CVT fluid.

As reference long time MaxLife user in maintaining two Hondas specing Z1 both with original trans, no issues.
 
I thought that the Magnuson Moss act required car companies to provide a product for free if they required its use to keep warranty coverage intact? Anyone know if this is correct?
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Use the OEM fluid.


+1 Considering how finicky CVTs can be and that the technology, while not new, has become more mainstream (with issues from what I read) I would stick with the OEM fluid or an approved fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: Langanobob
I thought that the Magnuson Moss act required car companies to provide a product for free if they required its use to keep warranty coverage intact? Anyone know if this is correct?


If your required to use only a Honda product then they must provide it for free. They are fine in saying the CVT oil must meet a certain spec, even if there is no CVT oil made that will meet that spec except for Honda.
 
Don't get me wrong, I was planning to use the official Honda CVT Fluid; even after the warranty expires... official Honda juice ain't cheap, but it's not a bank-breaker. I was just wondering how those aftermarket fluids can claim they meet two different specs the writer of said specs claim are incompatible.

As far as the Magnuson Moss Act goes: Really, the only relevant requirement the act imposes is that if they allege your non-factory service caused a failure they must supply some evidence that this is the case; they cannot just make a blanket statement that the presence of aftermarket parts invalidates the warranty. That said, if your CVT fails in a manner consistent with bad fluid, blaming it on aftermarket fluid isn't much of a stretch.

Personally, I have no issue with, say, using motor oil off the shelf or DOT X brake fluid, as those specs are completely public. But I just don't see how it'd ever be a good idea to use aftermarket fluids without public specs for said fluids to test themselves against. And unlike, say, an oil filter, there's no small and well-defined set of properties to test the fluid against.
 
Hondas are insanely picky about fluids. They have several different power steering fluids, and at the auto parts store our house brand of fluids even makes two different Honda-specific fluids. For transmission fluid, on a CVT, or new models, go OEM, for older automatics, you can use off-the-shelf fluids that meet the requirements (such as Maxlife)
 
Castrol CVT fluid is a great price on Amazon
smile.gif
 
Castrol CVT fluid has been working better than OEM on my girlfriend's Nissan rogue. If it meets your spec, use with confidence. My guess is that the new Honda spec is probably lower viscosity so they say they are incompatible, when in reality the only detriment would be a bit of fuel economy loss.
 
Jatco CVT's are used in a lot of brands - a universal fluid could be used in a Jatco rather than a brand specific oil.
 
Yeah, I could totally understand a fluid that claimed to work in a bunch of near-identical JATCO transmissions that are scattered all over the auto industry. (Though it'd be nice if JATCO came up with their own name for the fluid spec and made it clear which transmissions it was good for; not everybody knows who made their transmission.)

The part I don't get is how a fluid can possibly claim to meet two specs the OEM says are incompatible. I don't think Honda likes keeping two different CVT fluids on the shelf any more than consumers want to get confused by them. (And Honda makes those transmissions in-house; the only way they'll be like JATCO fluid is through coincidence.)

I suspect using out-of-spec CVT fluid will work short-term in nearly all circumstances, but in my mind, long-term durability would be in doubt; CVT's are very dependent on that fluid working how the transmission controller expects it to work.
 
Originally Posted By: dogememe
Hondas are insanely picky about fluids. They have several different power steering fluids, and at the auto parts store our house brand of fluids even makes two different Honda-specific fluids. For transmission fluid, on a CVT, or new models, go OEM, for older automatics, you can use off-the-shelf fluids that meet the requirements (such as Maxlife)



The ONLY place a Honda is picky on fluids is the power steering fluid. One call to the labs of Redline or Amsoil to see if their fluids will work without taking seals out is only a call away. And as I will state here why all the fear NOT using OEM when we have seen time and time and time again it is hard NOT to beat the quality and longevity of OEM (price point) oil from the OEMs with either Redline or Amsoil boutique oils. Both these boutique oil companies are done with their testing and designing of CVT oils and as they do with the rest of their oils, far exceed and OEM oils they replace.

It is very hard NOT to exceed OEM transmission fluids when I bet 100% of OEM transmission oils are group 3 oils when Redline is a group 5 and Amsoil trans fluids are a group 3&4. All it is is OEM/oil forum fear Dogma that starts OEM, OEM OEM replies that perpetuates OEM oil as this special virtuous oil, when in reality, it's far from it.

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Originally Posted By: Silk
Jatco CVT's are used in a lot of brands - a universal fluid could be used in a Jatco rather than a brand specific oil.


Silk, that is true to a degree, but you still have to be careful. The latest generation Jatcos used by Nissan and others use a very low viscosity CVT fluid. NS-3 vs. NS-2. They supposedly can't be swapped around. They're both difference colors to differentiate. NS-2 = green. NS-3 = blue. I'm sure an NS-4 won't be too far off! Ugh..

FWIW, I bought a case of Nissan NS-3 (blue CVT juice) off eBay for my Nissan Quest's CVT drain/fill because it could be had reasonably enough and I'm under warranty for a long time yet.
 
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The Amsoil CVT fluid claims to be suitable for NS-1, NS-2 or NS-3.
It does seem odd , but I suspect the thin NS-3 is more of a fuel economy grab, like 5w-20 motor oil.
The transmission components don't seem to have changed significantly.
 
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...The ONLY place a Honda is picky on fluids is the power steering fluid....

If by picky one means using a PSF that specifically states for Honda/Acura, I'd agree. Anecdotally I've used Bardahl PSF for H/A and now Prestone PSF for H/A on an 01 Civic and 3.0L Accord well over 200k miles between them and original pumps.

Rather than universal, when it comes to ATF and CVT fluids my preference is to call them multi-vehicle fluids. Seems there's lots of drivers/users getting lots of miles with no issues using multi vehicle fluids.
 
Originally Posted By: cronk
The Amsoil CVT fluid claims to be suitable for NS-1, NS-2 or NS-3.
It does seem odd , but I suspect the thin NS-3 is more of a fuel economy grab, like 5w-20 motor oil.
The transmission components don't seem to have changed significantly.


That's probably the case cronk.

If the CVT is still under warranty, I'd think as long as there's not obvious signs someone worked on it and the color of the fluid that comes out matches factory color, all would be well in terms of warranty coverage. You can guarantee that if a unit comes in with issues and red fluid drains out, they're going to do further forensics. I know this was the case for a Quest owner over on a nissan quest board I poke around on.
 
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