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Balancing weights, how many is too many? #4514755
09/13/17 12:56 AM
09/13/17 12:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,823
california
wrcsixeight Offline OP
wrcsixeight  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,823
california
Recently, I had to buy 4 new tires on a roadtrip.

Cooper Discoverer AT3 30 x 9.5 x 15 Load range C.

Today, I noticed on one wheel, there is a lot of weights on the rim, both sides, in the same part of the rim. This rim is on the driver's side front at the moment. Obviously the New tire itself was way out of balance.


There is a slight vibration beginning about 55mph.

The tires have about 1700 miles on them since they were installed mostly 55mph+ highway miles.

I am several hundred miles away from the tire dealer( not a chain) and unlikely to be in that tiny town again anytime in the forseeable future.

How many weights are too many?

Is a sign of a badly made tire? Dangerous?

The other three New tires do not have very many or very large weights on them, just this one.
The weights on both sides of the rim say 200 100 and 25.
Same sizes and numbers on both sides of the rim. This can't be 11.5 oz of lead on each side so that those numbers can't be grams. I'll guess the weights if they are lead, justging by fishineg weights, total about 2 OZ on each side of th erim.

AnD to surprise exactly nobody, the Lug nuts on the fronts were severly overtorqued. My 220 LBs and a 18 inch breaker bar had to use about 98% of my strength to loosen the lugs. The Lug nuts threads were damaged, luckily the studs were not. On the rears 2 of the 5 on each rim were extremely overtorqued, the three remainders were undertorqued, I'll guess the tight ones were about 180+Ft LB, the looser ones about 65Ft/LB.

I installed all new lugs today using a torque wrench.

Should I just try and get this tire rebalanced or remounted and rebalanced or try and see if Cooper will do anything for me?

There is a red dot on the whitewall side of the tire( which is on the inside) but it does not align with the tire weights. DOT code is 1717 on the tire in question.

Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514757
09/13/17 01:34 AM
09/13/17 01:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 627
WA
SnowDrifter Offline
SnowDrifter  Offline
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 627
WA
I think first step would be to get the thing rebalanced. Call around a couple shops and see if any of them use a hunter "road force" balancer. It does a pretty good job of being able to correct for things like a wheel out of round. If you find someone who knows how to really work the machine, ask for a balance accuracy of <0.10oz. There are a few menus you can navigate through the machine to do so. Out of the box it'll round to the nearest .25oz as that's the smallest weight available but there are ways around it if the tech is well versed in operation of the machine

As to your wheel weight numbers, 200=2.00oz, 175=1.75oz, etc.


2oz per wheel falls pretty well average FWIW

Oh yeah and the weights should be made of a zinc or steel. Lead's been phased out for a while now

Last edited by SnowDrifter; 09/13/17 01:35 AM.

2005 Tahoe - 135k
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Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514764
09/13/17 01:59 AM
09/13/17 01:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,823
california
wrcsixeight Offline OP
wrcsixeight  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,823
california
Thanks for the info.

There are 3 weights on the rim on each side in the same point on the radius. A 200 100 and a 25 on each side of the rim in the same point on the radius, for a total of 650.

6.5 OZ required to counterbalance this One tire?

It seems and look like an excessive amount of weight added. I assume the slight vibration I am feeling is from this tire. There is one other weight on the inside of the rim on this wheel, I think it is a 50 and about 90 degrees away from the 325.

The vibration at 55Mph did not become noticeable until about 750 miles after purchase. It is slight.


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Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514776
09/13/17 03:09 AM
09/13/17 03:09 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,762
ROCHESTER, NY
Char Baby Offline
Char Baby  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,762
ROCHESTER, NY
Yes, have the tire(s) rebalanced.
I have heard(only heard) that there should be no more than 7 weights on a wheel. Now, does this mean only 7 oz? IDK!
What if they're 1/2 oz wgts? IDK that either.
CapriRacer, our tire guru may chime in.


"Retired"
-----------------------------------

'80 Firebird FORMULA V8/4bbl-purchased "NEW"
'15 Nissan Altima 2.5 SV
'15 Honda Civic LX
Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514782
09/13/17 03:31 AM
09/13/17 03:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,123
Orlando, FL
Mr Nice Offline
Mr Nice  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,123
Orlando, FL
Yeah, definitely rebalance all the tires.

Not all tire techs are the same and some don't do a good job.

Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514799
09/13/17 04:42 AM
09/13/17 04:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
PA
copcarguy Offline
copcarguy  Offline
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 361
PA
+1 on finding a shop with a RoadForce balancer.

http://www.hunter.com/wheel-balancers/road-force-elite

Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514851
09/13/17 06:13 AM
09/13/17 06:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,046
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Chris142 Offline
Chris142  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,046
Deplorable in apple valley, ca
Sometimes moving the tire 180 on the rim will help.

Last edited by Chris142; 09/13/17 06:13 AM.

02 Wrangler carlube 5w30
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Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514852
09/13/17 06:16 AM
09/13/17 06:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,507
Somewhere in the US
CapriRacer Offline
CapriRacer  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,507
Somewhere in the US
Also, try rotating the tires BEFORE getting them rebalanced. If the problem is the tires, the vibration ought to move. If it doesn't move, then something else is vibrating and the only problem you have is how unattractive the amount of weights are.


CapriRacer

Visit my web site: www.BarrysTireTech.com
Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514859
09/13/17 06:39 AM
09/13/17 06:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,164
Coastal South Carolina
edwardh1 Offline
edwardh1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,164
Coastal South Carolina
my guess - bad tire. michelins seem to use small weights


These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514872
09/13/17 06:51 AM
09/13/17 06:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,444
America's Dairyland
LotI Offline
LotI  Offline
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,444
America's Dairyland
There is no limit. It takes what it takes.

Yellow dot = heaviest part of tire. Used to be you would put this by the valve stem but that doesn't work on alloys because the stem is where it looks best, not lightest.
Red dot = highest radial force variation. Match it up with the mark on the rim that is the low spot. Again, probably not marked but there could be a punch or sticker on the rim.
If it has both...red rules.

A RoadForce balancer can find these points on the tire and rim, just find a shop that knows how to do it.

Not all companies use both dots and it can vary by plant. My new Continental winter tires had no dots so I had to match mount with a RoadForce balancer from scratch.


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
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Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514884
09/13/17 07:15 AM
09/13/17 07:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 375
northern NY
Driz Offline
Driz  Offline
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 375
northern NY
You didn't by chance bend a rim did you? It doesn't take much sometime and it would be highly coincidental but.........

Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514889
09/13/17 07:24 AM
09/13/17 07:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,164
Coastal South Carolina
edwardh1 Offline
edwardh1  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,164
Coastal South Carolina
some places that have aa road force machine dont use it wjhen they balance your tires , cause its slower and takes more work. so ask if they use that feature on the machine


These products are all new every year?? They are a revolution!!! Razor blades, mens shirts, TVs, wiper blades, gutter guards, hearing aids... according to the ads. But also all new last year
Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: Chris142] #4514898
09/13/17 07:42 AM
09/13/17 07:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,159
Boston, MA
Bgallagher Offline
Bgallagher  Offline
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,159
Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Sometimes moving the tire 180 on the rim will help.


+1 this and a road force balance can make a world of difference. To answer your question there isn't really "too many" weights but that being said I would question the tire or the machine before lining your rim with weights


2017 Chevy Traverse - 28k - Delco Dexos 1 and PF63
2014 Chevy Equinox - 22k - Delco Dexos 1 and PF457G
2015 GMC Terrain - 22k- Delco Dexos 1 and PF457G
Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4514935
09/13/17 08:19 AM
09/13/17 08:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,058
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,058
Buffalo, NY
I had a similar thread going back in July https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4466267/Re:_New_DTD_wheels_for_the_For#Post4466267. On my Subaru, I had as many as 18 stick-on and one clip on weight on one of my factory wheel/tires! Also needed a lot of weight to balance new Walmart Douglas tires on new Discount Tire Direct wheels. 2 months later, all is well. No vibs or weird wear.

Last edited by JTK; 09/13/17 08:20 AM.

2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: Balancing weights, how many is too many? [Re: wrcsixeight] #4515105
09/13/17 11:06 AM
09/13/17 11:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,727
The Motor City
Kestas Offline
Kestas  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,727
The Motor City
My record is 8 oz to balance a tire. Even then you could feel the imbalance of the tire.

The tire had an additional problem of shimmying side-to-side. This was a craigslist purchase. The tires were WalMart Wintermark tires. I'm guessing the set I bought was a customer return at one point for this reason.

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