Delo XLE 10W30 55007 miles Detroit Diesel DD13

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As near as I can tell, there's not much interest in 10W30 HDEO here at BITOG, and certainly not in the low phosphorus offerings of some of the CK-4 oils. Still, here is a sample of 10W30 that happens to be dual rated (CK-4/SN) and therefore the phosphorus is limited at a maximum of 800 PPM. I am contracted to a carrier that offers me extraordinary value in their oil change services and their shop is full of all things Delo and Donaldson (filters).

With CJ-4 oils (meeting Detroit's 93K218 spec), the oil change interval was 50k miles or 1280 hours for an OTR truck like mine. Now with CK-4 (Detroit 93K222), I can go 55k miles (no hour limit listed). With limited idle time, I could go 65k miles.

I'm an OTR guy going all over the U.S. but I pretty much haul for a small group of customers that require me to haul heavy. No overweight permits, but have a lightweight truck and trailer to haul near 50k lbs and still be under the 80k lb gross weight limit. This oci saw about 2300 miles empty, with the rest of the miles being driven at or near 80k lbs.


2016 Freightliner Cascadia
Detroit Diesel DD13
450 HP @ 1450-1625 rpm and 1650 lb/ft torque @ 975-1500 rpm
31 psi max boost at 1500-1600 rpm, down to 22 psi at 975 rpm
Turbo is not variable geometry and not water cooled (imagine that).

Delo 400 XLE 10W30
Donaldson oil, fuel and air filters

This oci:

55007 miles
1851 hours (948 hrs driving / 903 hrs idling)
Engine 182465 miles
7295 gallons of fuel burned 7.5403 mpg for the oci

No oil added. At time of drain, oil was nearly touching the full line so perhaps down a pint, basically still full. The shop says they put in 10 gallons (40 qts) and I found Detroit literature saying that approximately 6 quarts are left behind when the oil is drained.

Idling (when parked) is bumped up to 900 rpm. The truck has Detroit's Optimized Idle which starts/stops the engine to maintain cabin temp/battery charge/oil temp as needed.

Code:


Engine miles 182465 127458 67400 29617

Oil miles 55007 40186 37783 29617

Oil hours 1851 1074 1195 755

All 10W30 oils Delo XLE Delo XLE Delvac Elite Factory fill

API CK-4/SN CK-4/SN CJ-4 CJ-4



Iron 38 33 46 31

Chromium 3 3 10 3

Lead 0 0 12 0

Copper 24 39 150 331

Tin 0 0 6 6

Aluminum 19 28 61 38

Nickel 0 0 0 1

Silver 0 0 0 0

Titanium 0 0 0 0

Vanadium 0 0 0 0



Silicon 5 6 6 5

Sodium 9 10 5 9

Potassium 26 34 131 96

Water
Coolant NO NO NO NO



Magnesium 715 683 895 470

Calcium 1376 1586 1576 1534

Barium 0 0 0 2

Phosphorus 731 868 1054 915

Zinc 873 1043 1417 1140

Moly 7 17 59 57

Boron 17 37 16 83



Visc (cSt) @ 100C 12.5 11.5 12.4 11.4

Fuel
Soot 0.5%


TBN 2.9 3.3 N/A 3.6



The 20k miles missing between the second and third reports are because of a

short oci late 2016. I had the overhead adjusted and changed the oil at the same

time but didn't sample it.



Lab is ALS and I changed the
 
Always forget something. This engine uses a single full flow oil filter...no bypass. Also, in case anyone wonders, the emissions equipment is fully intact.
 
All seems to be in the smile zone.
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Excellent UOA with the only element I would consider high is Cu, with this many miles/hours it may be a normal reading.

I am a 10w-30 user, as you well know and I use it in every application I can. keep on truckin!
 
Very nice report. I think this is the longest OCI I have ever seen without the use of a bypass filter.

Considering the low TBN and that the oil is starting to thicken, I think you got everything out of it.

Who did the analysis and what was their recommendation?
 
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
Excellent UOA with the only element I would consider high is Cu, with this many miles/hours it may be a normal reading.

I am a 10w-30 user, as you well know and I use it in every application I can. keep on truckin!


Yup, I know you use 10W30 without apologies.
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Everything is taking forever to get rinsed out. Copper, aluminum and potassium, and even moly from early oci's are still hanging in there due to so much oil being left in the engine at each drain.
 
Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
Very interesting- thanks!
I took a shine to Delo 15w30 HDEO for my OPE and tractors


You're welcome! I thought maybe some people would be interested in this oil for their gasoline engines (big and small).
 
Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
Very nice report. I think this is the longest OCI I have ever seen without the use of a bypass filter.

Considering the low TBN and that the oil is starting to thicken, I think you got everything out of it.

Who did the analysis and what was their recommendation?



I agree that I got a lot out of this oil and it wasn't easy (for me) to go that far.
I watched the idle time piling up and the total fuel burned along the way, so I was a little bit concerned.
The only thing that gave me some comfort was the fact that the oil wasn't going down on the dipstick,
as I took that as a good sign.

Lab was ALS for all. Three NAPA kits and a Delvac kit were used.
The Delvac kit doesn't provide TBN for whatever reason.

Code:


From most recent analysis: "All wear rates normal.

Abrasives and other contaminant levels are acceptable.

Action: as oil and filters already changed, resample next recommended service interval

to further monitor."


Code:


From the factory fill sample: "Engine wear levels appear satisfactory

for first sample. The higher than normal potassium and aluminum levels

in isolation suggests leaching of brazing flux compound

from the aftercooler, and does not indicate a wear related problem.

The higher than normal copper level is due to leaching of copper oxide

from the oil cooler, and does not indicate a related wear problem.

Abrasive and other contaminant levels are acceptable.

Viscosity within specified range.

Action: as oil and filters already changed, resample next service interval

to monitor and establish wear trend."
 
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Thanks for posting the UOA, Dusty. It will be a couple more months before I switch from the 15w40 Delo SDE over to the 10W30 XLE for the Winter.

I've been meaning to post a UOA for the 15W40 SDE, but I've been really busy running, which is always a good thing.

I'm new to interpreting the numbers, but from what I can see, your motor really likes the 10W30 XLE. It looks very much up to the task.

Be safe, and best regards!
 
You're welcome Dak. I know that you are limited to shorter intervals with the Series 60 engine (at least while you have warranty), but I know that the new CK-4 oils will work great for you, too. They are improved in preventing aeration and shearing, and that benefits all of us.

The important thing in my mind is that the new oil appears to be living up to the hype, at least in regards to the extended oci abilities. I'm certainly impressed with the TBN retention and the apparent oxidation resistance. The most recent oci was not only a considerable number of miles, but many hours, too.

I'm going to enjoy keeping the truck out of the shop for an extra month or two between oil changes.

Take care and safe truckin'!
 
Here is my latest UOA. This OCI was early August 2017 to early January '18. I'm over the fear of running these long intervals. I'm really enjoying the fact that I just grease the tractor myself and only going in for oil changes about every 5 months.

This was more of the same in regards to the operating conditions. I'm loaded the vast majority of the time, taking in raw materials and reloading with finished products or often moving raw materials or partially finished goods between factories. I'm usually loaded close to the 80k pound limit.

This oci:
55185 miles
1427 total hours (978 hrs driving / 449 hrs idling)
7172 gallons of fuel burned for an average 7.694 mpg (I thought I would average over 8 mpg, but the cold winter winds and blazing trails through the snow really put a load on the engine.)

No oil was added, it remained solidly at the full mark on the dipstick throughout the entire interval. It takes 10 gallons at each oil change, but the total capacity is 46.5 quarts (leaving 6.5 quarts behind at each drain). If you look at my original factory fill UOA thread, I said that it takes 38 quarts for an oil change. That's what the guys said at my very first oil change, but maybe their bulk oil dispenser nozzle was inaccurate. Every oil change since, has taken a full 10 gallons to fill and that matches the info in Detroit literature.

I'm very happy with the engine. It's quite impressive all around.

Code:


Engine miles 237650 182465 127458 67400 29617

Oil miles 55185 55007 40186 37783 29617

Oil hours 1427 1851 1074 1195 755

All 10W-30 oils Delo XLE D-XLE D-XLE Delvac Elite Factory fill

API CK-4/SN CK-4/SN CK-4/SN CJ-4 CJ-4





Iron 34 38 33 46 31

Chromium 2 3 3 10 3

Lead 0 0 0 12 0

Copper 12 24 39 150 321

Tin 0 0 0 6 6

Aluminum 15 19 28 61 38

Nickel 0 0 0 0 1

Silver 0 0 0 0 0

Titanium 0 0 0 0 0

Vanadium 0 0 0 0 0



Silicon 5 5 6 6 5

Sodium 3 9 10 5 9

Potassium 26 26 34 131 96

Water
Coolant NO NO NO NO NO



Magnesium 736 715 683 895 470

Calcium 1280 1376 1586 1576 1534

Barium 0 0 0 0 2

Phosphorus 720 731 868 1054 915

Zinc 830 873 1043 1417 1140

Moly 3 7 17 59 57

Boron 17 17 37 16 83



Visc (cSt)@100c 11.8 12.5 11.5 12.4 11.4

Fuel
Soot 0.3% 0.5% 0.1% 0.9% 0.3%



TBN 3.0 2.9 3.3 N/A 3.6






Last summer, I learned that this engine has "Sputter" or "Sputtered" bearings for the mains and rods. I somehow stumbled upon a Detroit PDF that takes a Detroit tech through the process of diagnosing the cause of spun bearings. Among other things, it mentions the "Sputter" bearings.

Apparently, these bearings are much better suited to handling the intense pressure of making huge torque at crazy low rpm (they're less susceptible to wear and fatigue). The downside of these bearings, is that they don't allow particles to embed in the hardened aluminum/tin overlay the way a copper/lead//tin (softer) bearing does. If something gets into the sputtered bearings (that may otherwise embed into the traditional soft bearing), it will most likely cause a spun bearing. This is all new stuff to me, and maybe some will want to read up and learn more. Just throwing it out there for those who want to learn.
 
Yet more great results!
That is outstanding data for the exposure duration. Wear rates are staying nice and low.
All your contamination is low; very low. Your Si in particular is very impressive; good air filtration.
I honestly think that you could start pushing out, cautiously, at bit at a time, towards 75k miles, maybe more?

I believe you already mentioned, but what filtration is used? FF and BP?



I'll have to read up on sputter bearings; interesting.
 
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Originally Posted By: PiperOne
I am now on CK-4 (Delo 5w40) and these results make me feel warm and fuzzy. Thanks for sharing.


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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Yet more great results!
That is outstanding data for the exposure duration. Wear rates are staying nice and low.
All your contamination is low; very low. Your Si in particular is very impressive; good air filtration.
I honestly think that you could start pushing out, cautiously, at bit at a time, towards 75k miles, maybe more?

I believe you already mentioned, but what filtration is used? FF and BP?



I'll have to read up on sputter bearings; interesting.


Hi Dave. No bypass filter on the Detroit DD engines; they only use a cartridge style full flow filter. In the past, I posted some UOA for my Volvo's and those did use a spin-on bypass filter in conjunction with two full flows.

I agree with you on the extended intervals and just might do so. Only, I would probably stop at 65k miles. My injector warranty recently expired, but I still have warranty on the "major components" until 500k, so I would be hesitant to go more than 65k. Detroit says with 7+ mpg, minimal city driving and minimal idling; 65k miles is fine. I was using their 55k mile recommendation with so much idle time, but I think I will go more. I'm well over 7 mpg despite the high idle time.

The original air filter was changed during the 127k oil change. The second filter is still in there. Everything is buttoned up tight and it shows in the UOA. For the record, it's a Donaldson Power Core filter (the original and replacement).

If you Google "Detroit DD13 spun bearings"; you should get the Detroit PDF right up at the top of the results. I don't remember the PDF title, but it's obvious regarding Detroit bearing failures. It has some good info and pictures of ruined bearings that may be fun for gear-heads to look at.
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That is fantastic wear for an OCI of that duration, with no BP element. Simply outstanding, and hard to believe because it's so good.
That engine must be very clean running to have such a low soot level after such a long run, and no make up oil to dilute results. Soot is often limited at 3%-5% depending upon OEM. You're at 1/10th that value! Hard to express how impressive that is! And no make-up oil to dilute the results too.

Essentially you have practically no intrusion of silica, and a very low soot load. The two major contributors to wear are super low, so it's no wonder your wear rates are so steady and low, even after 55k miles! Who needs BP when you're running that clean?

65k miles is totally doable. 75k is likely easily attained. More is possible. (All verified with UOAs obviously).
I do understand your hesitation to continue to stretch it out; everyone has a self-imposed limit where they get a bit queasy.
I assume you have a way to take a live-sample? I would suggest that you run to 50k miles, sample and decide.
Then every 10k miles after that, take another sample.

Yes - taking lots of UOAs can be a tad tedious (although a live-sample port makes it really easy actually). And there's cost involved too. But a UOA is far cheaper than 10 gallons of lube!


I admire your dedication and ability to let the data drive your decisions. Stick with it!
At the rate of wear you're seeing, that might be the last engine you buy.
 
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