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Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: billt460] #4520969
09/20/17 07:29 AM
09/20/17 07:29 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,177
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,177
'Stralia
same lifters ???

same solenoid ???

different oil ???

Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521131
09/20/17 10:49 AM
09/20/17 10:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
User Clevy ran 0w-40 in his 5w-20 spec Charger and was able to get a code tripped for improper viscosity when it was below -30C I believe once. That was the only time I am aware that he experienced it.

The system is not that sensitive, it can't be given the range of the SAE grades.

Regarding the whole argument with the 5.7L and the 6.4L, the engines are extremely similar and the system operates in the same manner. There are accommodations made to the programming for the 6.4L engines for the 0w-40 spec.

Also, this may be found as amusing: The 5.7L and 6.4L truck engines use the exact same lifter part #'s. However they spec very different oils.
See below snap from the 2014 RAM 1500/2500/3500 manual:



I have not been able to find the SRT lifter part # as of yet, but I can probably find it at some point today.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521149
09/20/17 11:08 AM
09/20/17 11:08 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
Just confirmed, the 5.7L MDS and 6.4L (SRT) MDS engines use the same lifters.

Quote:

LIFTER. Front, Rear. Hydraulic Roller Deactivating. Yoke.
Part Number: 05038788AC ; 05038788AA; 05038788AB; 05038683AA; 53021573BC
[NHA], Crew Cab, Front Yoke, Rear Yoke, Use 03/16/2015 And After, Use For Production Date 03/16/2015 And After, Use For Production Date 03/16/2016 And After, Use Up To And Including Production Date 03/15/2015, Yoke.


They also use the same solenoids:
Quote:
SOLENOID. Multiple Displacement.
Part Number: 53022298AA




2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521193
09/20/17 11:52 AM
09/20/17 11:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Those sunsabitches! smile

Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: OVERKILL] #4521196
09/20/17 11:55 AM
09/20/17 11:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
User Clevy ran 0w-40 in his 5w-20 spec Charger and was able to get a code tripped for improper viscosity when it was below -30C I believe once. That was the only time I am aware that he experienced it.

The system is not that sensitive, it can't be given the range of the SAE grades.

Regarding the whole argument with the 5.7L and the 6.4L, the engines are extremely similar and the system operates in the same manner. There are accommodations made to the programming for the 6.4L engines for the 0w-40 spec.

Also, this may be found as amusing: The 5.7L and 6.4L truck engines use the exact same lifter part #'s. However they spec very different oils.
See below snap from the 2014 RAM 1500/2500/3500 manual:



I have not been able to find the SRT lifter part # as of yet, but I can probably find it at some point today.
Is this from a Canadian manual? And I guess we know who makes the Mopar oil.

Last edited by bigj_16; 09/20/17 11:57 AM.
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521227
09/20/17 12:25 PM
09/20/17 12:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline
bigj_16  Offline
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado

Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521314
09/20/17 01:41 PM
09/20/17 01:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
Panzerman Offline
Panzerman  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,219
Port Orange, Florida
I am sorry. I thought this site was where average Joe's shared information and tips and about products and what works better and how to get more mileage. Sharing experience and what works and what doesn't. If we all just do as the manual says that eliminates alot of posts on MMO or any fuel additives, not permitted by manual. The point that we are lucky enough to even get to share information with people from other countries is Great. So what does it take for people to realize it is a Cafe standard and not for engine tolerances or longitivity and two countries don't get different cars. I think what drives me is not you follow the manual so religiously it's that you actually believe 15w40 and thick is don't pump below 0 and you need required 0 weight oils based on no experience, just what you read. Open up your minds.



2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi 4x4
2016 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: bigj_16] #4521398
09/20/17 02:54 PM
09/20/17 02:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Is this from a Canadian manual? And I guess we know who makes the Mopar oil.


Nope, it is from the US manual:
https://www.ramtrucks.com/download/pdf/manuals/2014-RAM_15_25_35-OM-3rd.pdf


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: OVERKILL] #4521429
09/20/17 03:55 PM
09/20/17 03:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,177
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,177
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Just confirmed, the 5.7L MDS and 6.4L (SRT) MDS engines use the same lifters.

Quote:

LIFTER. Front, Rear. Hydraulic Roller Deactivating. Yoke.
Part Number: 05038788AC ; 05038788AA; 05038788AB; 05038683AA; 53021573BC
[NHA], Crew Cab, Front Yoke, Rear Yoke, Use 03/16/2015 And After, Use For Production Date 03/16/2015 And After, Use For Production Date 03/16/2016 And After, Use Up To And Including Production Date 03/15/2015, Yoke.


They also use the same solenoids:
Quote:
SOLENOID. Multiple Displacement.
Part Number: 53022298AA


Yep, that's what my researches found too... thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521542
09/20/17 06:35 PM
09/20/17 06:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,879
WI.
dblshock Offline
dblshock  Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,879
WI.
Honda doesn't have these issues, here's my 1.5T with over sized tires so add 2mpg. and above I-system speeds on twice the spec viscosity...



16 Civic Coupe Touring 33k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Edge 0/40 XG7317
Firehawk Indy 500

06 4Runner SR5 141k
640:1 TCW-3
PP 5/30 XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: dblshock] #4521557
09/20/17 06:43 PM
09/20/17 06:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Honda doesn't have these issues, here's my 1.5T with over sized tires so add 2mpg. and above I-system speeds on twice the spec viscosity...


Not sure what your anecdote is qualifying shrug Seems no different than mine about user Clevy who did similar with his Charger.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521669
09/20/17 09:11 PM
09/20/17 09:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,879
WI.
dblshock Offline
dblshock  Offline
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,879
WI.
minimal risk ignoring the silly CAFE w20 motor oil spec.


16 Civic Coupe Touring 33k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Edge 0/40 XG7317
Firehawk Indy 500

06 4Runner SR5 141k
640:1 TCW-3
PP 5/30 XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: dblshock] #4521764
09/20/17 11:07 PM
09/20/17 11:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,483
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: dblshock
minimal risk ignoring the silly CAFE w20 motor oil spec.


Well I think that applies to both applications quite frankly; most of them even. An engine simply cannot be that sensitive to viscosity and survive anything close to resembling winter, which has a much greater impact on actual viscosity than the difference between grades at moderate ambient and 100C.


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: AdrienneOwens] #4521788
09/20/17 11:58 PM
09/20/17 11:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
burlington ,ontario, canada
ndfergy Offline
ndfergy  Offline
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 470
burlington ,ontario, canada
It's CAFE driven

I'm not sure, or anyone else for that matter, what the balance is between chemistry and viscosity is in the valvetrain but the BOI testing requirements for camshaft wear is not required if the exchanged Base oil is > in viscosity. I'm certainly not the one to comment on this intelligently, like some of, you but it seems to me viscosity is a key driver in wear protection in this area.



2015 Toyota Yaris 5spd Manual
Summer: Mobil Super 1000 10w30
Winter: Mobil Super 1000 5w30
OEM Filter
Re: Why are newer cars using thinner motor oils? [Re: ndfergy] #4521792
09/21/17 12:06 AM
09/21/17 12:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,177
'Stralia
Shannow Online content
Shannow  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 41,177
'Stralia
Yes, that is an entirely logical thought process.

If add pack a) in 5W20 meets sequence IVA, then it qualifies all thicker blends.
If add pack b) in 5W30 meets sequence IVA, then it qualifies a 40, but not a 20.

For API to make that distinction clearly indicates that they are aware of the behaviour.

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