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#4512421 - 09/10/17 03:42 PM Ecofriendly Mobility
Y_K Offline


Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 2181
Loc: WA (USA)

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#4512437 - 09/10/17 04:13 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: Y_K]
czbrian Offline


Registered: 04/10/15
Posts: 157
Loc: Houston, TX
The Swedish study referenced in the video is full of flaws that have been pointed out. A few of the simpler items:

The study assumed zero CO2 emmisions for manufacturing of the engine of the default diesel vehicles.

The study assumed zero emmisions for getting the diesel to the pump

The study assumed the diesel used was eco friendly bio diesel that was 40 to 50% carbon neutral.

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#4512438 - 09/10/17 04:13 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: Y_K]
bioburner Offline


Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 1418
Loc: Minnesota
Europe and Japan are using more and more wood pellets for power generation. Major growth industry in US and Canada is pellet production for export.
So cut a tree and put it in your tank. The use of corn and now its stover for booze is old school and propped up by taxes and barely profitable by the sale of the distillers grains.
Germany is one of the leaders in solar and wind generation and if the cars would use hydrogen instead they would not need the ugly production of the batteries.
Just my short rant
_________________________

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#4512452 - 09/10/17 04:24 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: Y_K]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40167
Loc: 'Stralia
Cool, then add the environmental cost of the batteries that are made to store the energy to charge the batteries on stored "green" energy...not very green, and very very expensive in the long run.

Carbon reverse certificate for my Colorado has the first 5 years of operation 22 tonnes of CO2

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#4512453 - 09/10/17 04:24 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: Y_K]
AirgunSavant Offline


Registered: 07/22/15
Posts: 3772
Loc: MD
I'm happy. My electric is hydro....from the Conowingo Dam.

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#4512463 - 09/10/17 04:33 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: bioburner]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40167
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: bioburner

Germany is one of the leaders in solar and wind generation and if the cars would use hydrogen instead they would not need the ugly production of the batteries.
Just my short rant


Having built and commissioned a hydrogen generating plant in the 90s, I know how inefficient it is as a storage medium.

Sun-> electricity 25% efficient (and at a 25% capacity factor too, as the sun's not out 24/7.
electricty-> hydrogen <50%
transport losses (it's slippery, we deal with it every day)
Round cycle <10%, and again, don't forget that you only get to do it 6-8 hours per day.

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#4512632 - 09/10/17 07:39 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: Y_K]
walterjay Offline


Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 248
Loc: Maryland
I have always thought of electric cars as coal burners. At this point there is no free ride.

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#4512695 - 09/10/17 09:16 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: walterjay]
CKN Online   content


Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 3768
Loc: Utah
Originally Posted By: walterjay
I have always thought of electric cars as coal burners. At this point there is no free ride.


Only in those states that the majority of their power comes from coal. I think here in Utah 70% of our power comes from coal.


Edited by CKN (09/10/17 09:17 PM)

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#4512768 - 09/10/17 10:58 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: Y_K]
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1232
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
All I have to say is that 'carbon credit' idea sellers, and 'man-made climate changers' simply show they failed every science class known.

ALL life, whether human, plant, or animal, is carbon-based. Without CO2, plants die. Without plants and the resulting oxygen released from said plants, humans and animals die. It's a proven fact that plants ramp up growth when exposed to higher levels of CO2... NATURAL sequestration, the way Nature has always regulated itself. The Earth is already hovering at the lowest ever CO2 levels recorded; man's best efforts be dammed. Any lower and we risk tipping the entire ecosystem on its head.

Do carbon sequestration, carbon credits, and reducing manmade CO2 still sound like good ideas?

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#4512772 - 09/10/17 11:12 PM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: SubieRubyRoo]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40167
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
The Earth is already hovering at the lowest ever CO2 levels recorded; man's best efforts be dammed. Any lower and we risk tipping the entire ecosystem on its head.


Say what ?

We are 50% higher than we were before we started this great experiment...so
* clearly the eccosystem was working before we started messing with it. (the world survived through it clearly).
* clearly the rate that it can be sequestered is lower than the rate of production (otherwise it wouldn't rise regardless of what we do)

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#4512878 - 09/11/17 05:35 AM Re: Ecofriendly Mobility [Re: czbrian]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40167
Loc: 'Stralia
Originally Posted By: czbrian
The Swedish study referenced in the video is full of flaws that have been pointed out. A few of the simpler items:

The study assumed zero CO2 emmisions for manufacturing of the engine of the default diesel vehicles.

The study assumed zero emmisions for getting the diesel to the pump

The study assumed the diesel used was eco friendly bio diesel that was 40 to 50% carbon neutral.


Here's the rebuttal...

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/06/22/swedish-ev-battery-study-sucks/

which in itself obviously deserves a bunch of rebutals...making up your own facts to denounce someone else's is a bit weak.

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