Like BITOG?

If you don't mind oil-related ads, and want to keep us running, whitelist BobisTheOilGuy in your ad blocker.

Thank you!

Recent Topics
Update password ?
by meadows
06/17/18 11:59 PM
Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder
by Reddy45
06/17/18 11:56 PM
Nissan DLR put 0w20 in car that specs 5w30. worry?
by CrAlt
06/17/18 10:40 PM
revive Nicd battery
by Donald
06/17/18 10:27 PM
Need help finding an apartment for friend
by RazorsEdge
06/17/18 10:07 PM
ceratec with redline 5w30?
by 08z06
06/17/18 09:53 PM
does your COMCAST modem have weak wifi??
by edwardh1
06/17/18 09:50 PM
I hate stuck thermostats
by jakewells
06/17/18 09:49 PM
Mag1 75w90
by SavagePatch
06/17/18 09:32 PM
Old batteries at HD
by bbhero
06/17/18 09:27 PM
Buying a CPO Toyota - still get inspected?
by Parlay_Slow
06/17/18 09:08 PM
Water Pump Paper Gasket With RTV? Longevity?
by nobb
06/17/18 08:22 PM
Who makes Briggs & Stratton oil?
by spk2000
06/17/18 08:13 PM
Shure stylus replacement
by aquariuscsm
06/17/18 07:54 PM
Any 'crazy UCL overdose' fans out there?
by addyguy
06/17/18 07:11 PM
Source for Castrol Edge Supercar 5w50 oil?
by Rainier42
06/17/18 06:50 PM
Cherry vs orange hand cleaner
by JHZR2
06/17/18 06:27 PM
Why buy low mileage tires?
by HowAboutThis
06/17/18 05:49 PM
Mercury 35-8M0065104 cut open w/ oil change pics
by dlundblad
06/17/18 05:37 PM
2019 Honda’s miniMOTOs (125cc)
by DuckRyder
06/17/18 05:18 PM
Newest Members
mostdecent, T1TN, Piper58, dunlop0078, Truth_Syrup
65258 Registered Users
Who's Online
18 registered (dishdude, ctechbob, Chris B., E365, edwardh1, edyvw, 1 invisible), 748 Guests and 41 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65258 Members
67 Forums
285502 Topics
4764681 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Topic Options
#4511571 - 09/09/17 01:45 PM List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils?
Spring1898 Offline


Registered: 07/22/17
Posts: 3
Loc: US
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone has ever compiled or thought of compiling a list of VOA's for "Home" mixed oils?
A lot of us do it all the time anyway, but wouldn't it be nice to have some general ideas of what a given oil mix might look like by the numbers?

It could probably have info like Year, Brand, Weight, Quantity etc.

Top
#4511586 - 09/09/17 02:04 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9369
Loc: Upper Midwest
Well one would not need a VOA of mixed oils, the results would be a ratio of elements equal to what you mixed in the first place. And it wouldn't be a general idea, it would be exactly what the VOA would show.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 394K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4511595 - 09/09/17 02:22 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
SubieRubyRoo Offline


Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 1125
Loc: Winchester, Indiana
All it would really show you is that you wasted time and money on a VOA that didn't really tell you anything, and most likely you ended up with an inferior oil than either of the oils by themselves. Just pick the right oil and go with it on its own. My2C.

Top
#4511598 - 09/09/17 02:26 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
kschachn Offline


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9369
Loc: Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: Spring1898
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone has ever compiled or thought of compiling a list of VOA's for "Home" mixed oils?
A lot of us do it all the time anyway, but wouldn't it be nice to have some general ideas of what a given oil mix might look like by the numbers?

It could probably have info like Year, Brand, Weight, Quantity etc.

Also, what would you do with the information if you had it? Can you predict the future performance of an oil based on a VOA?
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 394K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4511664 - 09/09/17 04:15 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
OneEyeJack Offline


Registered: 09/14/10
Posts: 7471
Loc: S California
Plus, your mixing process might be different than the oil company. They might use high temps and pressure, slow or fast heating/cooling cycles and they might inject a catalyst or other components that you might not have. They might also have a way to blend things that would not be public information and their version of basic ingredients could have different chemistries that the other oil company.

The results of a cold bottle mix could keep some of the components in suspension instead of the homogeneous result you were looking for. At least you will have the good lubrication qualities of the base oils to help avoid any immediate change in noticeable wear rates. If you degraded the lubrication quality of your new oil it would be a while before the results would show and again because of the good base oils it would difficult to figure out. You could claim the title of "Frankenoil Blender" and no one would be the wiser.

Top
#4511802 - 09/09/17 07:55 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15682
Loc: OH
The add packs found in any finished oil that you'll see on the shelf come from only four suppliers that I can think of and are more alike than different in any oil blended to meet any given spec or cert.
Only Valvoline stands out among the major brands in using a high sodium add pack that you don't see in many other oils these days.
A series of really good VOAs of mixes like those done by PQIA would tell us something in that we'd get some real data on the physical properties of mixes of dissimilar finished motor oils. This would finally put to rest the many discussions of whether we should mix oils or not with a definitive answer based upon things that we don't see tested in the basic VOA/UOAs we have done.
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

Top
#4511947 - 09/09/17 11:01 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: fdcg27]
Spring1898 Offline


Registered: 07/22/17
Posts: 3
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

A series of really good VOAs of mixes like those done by PQIA would tell us something in that we'd get some real data on the physical properties of mixes of dissimilar finished motor oils. This would finally put to rest the many discussions of whether we should mix oils or not with a definitive answer based upon things that we don't see tested in the basic VOA/UOAs we have done.


This is my reasoning in a nutshell.
There are so many people that do it anyway, why not get some real world data on what it does?
UOA's would also be beneficial, especially with the additional identifiers from the print out, like Year, Make, Model, Climate, driving usage.

Top
#4512261 - 09/10/17 11:54 AM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Spring1898


...UOA's would also be beneficial, especially with the additional identifiers from the print out, like Year, Make, Model, Climate, driving usage.


One would have to have additional data such as engine type, displacement, Brand, fuel and/or additives used, exact mix ratios, etc. in order to even get an inkling of what the results might mean.

Quote:
Also, what would you do with the information if you had it? Can you predict the future performance of an oil based on a VOA?


Good question and I think not.

Quote:
...This would finally put to rest the many discussions of whether we should mix oils or not with a definitive answer based upon things that we don't see tested in the basic VOA/UOAs we have done.


If you don't know anything about the levels of the unseen organic chemistry not shown in run-of-the mill VOA's or UOA's, how can any VOA or UOA be conclusive?


Edited by MolaKule (09/10/17 12:03 PM)

Top
#4512267 - 09/10/17 12:03 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: fdcg27]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 10920
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The add packs found in any finished oil that you'll see on the shelf come from only four suppliers that I can think of and are more alike than different in any oil blended to meet any given spec or cert.

Pretty much as I sometimes post [top Quality] oil is oil
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."Geoff Metcalf"

Top
#4512270 - 09/10/17 12:05 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Quote:
The add packs found in any finished oil that you'll see on the shelf come from only four suppliers that I can think of and are more alike than different in any oil blended to meet any given spec or cert...


And how does one know if they don't modify the add pack after it is delivered?

Top
#4512522 - 09/10/17 05:44 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: MolaKule]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15682
Loc: OH
You would know.
Do they in any way that would actually matter?
At some point, they may as well just make their own add packs rather than buying commercial ones that can be blended with various basestocks to make a finished oil that will meet the desired KV grade as well as the desired cert/spec.
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

Top
#4513018 - 09/11/17 09:08 AM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: fdcg27]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 19042
Loc: Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

...At some point, they may as well just make their own add packs rather than buying commercial ones that can be blended with various basestocks to make a finished oil that will meet the desired KV grade as well as the desired cert/spec.


This is exactly what I used to do before Commercial PI packages became widespread. Buying separate chemical components for the PI package is often more costly than purchasing the Commercial PI package. The advantage for the formulator making his own PI package is that one has more control over the chemistry.

The advantage of purchasing Commercial PI packages is that the additive supplier has validated the package against OEM requirements through testing.

Here is how it works:

A Commercial PI manf. develops the PI formula from a mix of various chemical components. I.e., each individual chemical component in the mix is selected to accomplish a specific task.

[One component in the PI package might be a 2,5 dimercapto-1,3,4-thiadiazole chemistry for anti-corrosion and metal deactivation].

A commercial blender purchases the Commercial PI package and is given a "Blending" sheet or blending "card."

The blending sheet specifies 1) what base oils and VII's should be used and from what suppliers, 2) The mixing ratios for each base oil/VII/PI package combination.

When the Commercial PI package has been blended against this blending sheet, that Commercial PI manf. certifies that the resulting mix will meet, for example, Dexos1. Any deviation from this blending sheet means that the blender will have to have it re-certified, via re-testing, against OEM specifications.

The modification of a Commercial PI package is done for several reasons and is proprietary.


Edited by MolaKule (09/11/17 09:22 AM)

Top
#4513350 - 09/11/17 02:43 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 5109
Loc: Florida
This thread reminded me of the Ol' Mobil 1 0w20 & M1 0w40 mix to create a healthy 0w30 blend. When I tried this @ 50/50 ratio, the UOA showed a very strong TBN vs regular Mobil 1 0w30 AFE from the shelf that I previously sampled.

I've never pondered about the affects of blending the Lube Hot or Cold. Hmmmm.

Wouldn't it be interesting to send a blended sample in, one blended cold and another in a pan on the stove and get different results back...? crackmeup
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart.

Top
#4513531 - 09/11/17 06:02 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: MolaKule]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15682
Loc: OH
This is along the lines of what I was thinking and seems to describe the way most OTC oils are created.
There are the outliers in the boutique market of course but you pay handsomely for them and they often fail to carry any real licenses or certs but rather rely upon weasel words like "meets" or "suitable for" which many of these oils probably are.
How much can a blender modify a commercial add pack before having to certify the resulting blend themselves?
I'm guessing not much in any way that would matter, although I could well be entirely wrong.
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

Top
#4513532 - 09/11/17 06:03 PM Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Artem]
fdcg27 Offline


Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 15682
Loc: OH
You don't really need a pan and a stove when you have a 100C+ oil temp engine to do it for you on the first long drive.
_________________________
17 Forester 12K MSS 0W-20
12 Accord LX 86K PP 5W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

Top