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List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? #4511571
09/09/17 12:45 PM
09/09/17 12:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3
US
Spring1898 Offline OP
Spring1898  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3
US
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone has ever compiled or thought of compiling a list of VOA's for "Home" mixed oils?
A lot of us do it all the time anyway, but wouldn't it be nice to have some general ideas of what a given oil mix might look like by the numbers?

It could probably have info like Year, Brand, Weight, Quantity etc.

Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4511586
09/09/17 01:04 PM
09/09/17 01:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,306
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,306
Upper Midwest
Well one would not need a VOA of mixed oils, the results would be a ratio of elements equal to what you mixed in the first place. And it wouldn't be a general idea, it would be exactly what the VOA would show.


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4511595
09/09/17 01:22 PM
09/09/17 01:22 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,836
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline
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Posts: 1,836
The land of USA-made Subies!
All it would really show you is that you wasted time and money on a VOA that didn't really tell you anything, and most likely you ended up with an inferior oil than either of the oils by themselves. Just pick the right oil and go with it on its own. My2C.

Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4511598
09/09/17 01:26 PM
09/09/17 01:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,306
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,306
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: Spring1898
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone has ever compiled or thought of compiling a list of VOA's for "Home" mixed oils?
A lot of us do it all the time anyway, but wouldn't it be nice to have some general ideas of what a given oil mix might look like by the numbers?

It could probably have info like Year, Brand, Weight, Quantity etc.

Also, what would you do with the information if you had it? Can you predict the future performance of an oil based on a VOA?


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4511664
09/09/17 03:15 PM
09/09/17 03:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline
OneEyeJack  Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
Plus, your mixing process might be different than the oil company. They might use high temps and pressure, slow or fast heating/cooling cycles and they might inject a catalyst or other components that you might not have. They might also have a way to blend things that would not be public information and their version of basic ingredients could have different chemistries that the other oil company.

The results of a cold bottle mix could keep some of the components in suspension instead of the homogeneous result you were looking for. At least you will have the good lubrication qualities of the base oils to help avoid any immediate change in noticeable wear rates. If you degraded the lubrication quality of your new oil it would be a while before the results would show and again because of the good base oils it would difficult to figure out. You could claim the title of "Frankenoil Blender" and no one would be the wiser.

Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4511802
09/09/17 06:55 PM
09/09/17 06:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
The add packs found in any finished oil that you'll see on the shelf come from only four suppliers that I can think of and are more alike than different in any oil blended to meet any given spec or cert.
Only Valvoline stands out among the major brands in using a high sodium add pack that you don't see in many other oils these days.
A series of really good VOAs of mixes like those done by PQIA would tell us something in that we'd get some real data on the physical properties of mixes of dissimilar finished motor oils. This would finally put to rest the many discussions of whether we should mix oils or not with a definitive answer based upon things that we don't see tested in the basic VOA/UOAs we have done.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: fdcg27] #4511947
09/09/17 10:01 PM
09/09/17 10:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3
US
Spring1898 Offline OP
Spring1898  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 3
US
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

A series of really good VOAs of mixes like those done by PQIA would tell us something in that we'd get some real data on the physical properties of mixes of dissimilar finished motor oils. This would finally put to rest the many discussions of whether we should mix oils or not with a definitive answer based upon things that we don't see tested in the basic VOA/UOAs we have done.


This is my reasoning in a nutshell.
There are so many people that do it anyway, why not get some real world data on what it does?
UOA's would also be beneficial, especially with the additional identifiers from the print out, like Year, Make, Model, Climate, driving usage.

Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4512261
09/10/17 10:54 AM
09/10/17 10:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: Spring1898


...UOA's would also be beneficial, especially with the additional identifiers from the print out, like Year, Make, Model, Climate, driving usage.


One would have to have additional data such as engine type, displacement, Brand, fuel and/or additives used, exact mix ratios, etc. in order to even get an inkling of what the results might mean.

Quote:
Also, what would you do with the information if you had it? Can you predict the future performance of an oil based on a VOA?


Good question and I think not.

Quote:
...This would finally put to rest the many discussions of whether we should mix oils or not with a definitive answer based upon things that we don't see tested in the basic VOA/UOAs we have done.


If you don't know anything about the levels of the unseen organic chemistry not shown in run-of-the mill VOA's or UOA's, how can any VOA or UOA be conclusive?

Last edited by MolaKule; 09/10/17 11:03 AM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: fdcg27] #4512267
09/10/17 11:03 AM
09/10/17 11:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,578
Idaho
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
The add packs found in any finished oil that you'll see on the shelf come from only four suppliers that I can think of and are more alike than different in any oil blended to meet any given spec or cert.

Pretty much as I sometimes post [top Quality] oil is oil


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4512270
09/10/17 11:05 AM
09/10/17 11:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
Quote:
The add packs found in any finished oil that you'll see on the shelf come from only four suppliers that I can think of and are more alike than different in any oil blended to meet any given spec or cert...


And how does one know if they don't modify the add pack after it is delivered?


Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: MolaKule] #4512522
09/10/17 04:44 PM
09/10/17 04:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
You would know.
Do they in any way that would actually matter?
At some point, they may as well just make their own add packs rather than buying commercial ones that can be blended with various basestocks to make a finished oil that will meet the desired KV grade as well as the desired cert/spec.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: fdcg27] #4513018
09/11/17 08:08 AM
09/11/17 08:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,512
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: fdcg27

...At some point, they may as well just make their own add packs rather than buying commercial ones that can be blended with various basestocks to make a finished oil that will meet the desired KV grade as well as the desired cert/spec.


This is exactly what I used to do before Commercial PI packages became widespread. Buying separate chemical components for the PI package is often more costly than purchasing the Commercial PI package. The advantage for the formulator making his own PI package is that one has more control over the chemistry.

The advantage of purchasing Commercial PI packages is that the additive supplier has validated the package against OEM requirements through testing.

Here is how it works:

A Commercial PI manf. develops the PI formula from a mix of various chemical components. I.e., each individual chemical component in the mix is selected to accomplish a specific task.

[One component in the PI package might be a 2,5 dimercapto-1,3,4-thiadiazole chemistry for anti-corrosion and metal deactivation].

A commercial blender purchases the Commercial PI package and is given a "Blending" sheet or blending "card."

The blending sheet specifies 1) what base oils and VII's should be used and from what suppliers, 2) The mixing ratios for each base oil/VII/PI package combination.

When the Commercial PI package has been blended against this blending sheet, that Commercial PI manf. certifies that the resulting mix will meet, for example, Dexos1. Any deviation from this blending sheet means that the blender will have to have it re-certified, via re-testing, against OEM specifications.

The modification of a Commercial PI package is done for several reasons and is proprietary.

Last edited by MolaKule; 09/11/17 08:22 AM.

Scars remind us of where we have been, but do not have to dictate where we are going.
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Spring1898] #4513350
09/11/17 01:43 PM
09/11/17 01:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,410
Florida
Artem Offline
Artem  Offline
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,410
Florida
This thread reminded me of the Ol' Mobil 1 0w20 & M1 0w40 mix to create a healthy 0w30 blend. When I tried this @ 50/50 ratio, the UOA showed a very strong TBN vs regular Mobil 1 0w30 AFE from the shelf that I previously sampled.

I've never pondered about the affects of blending the Lube Hot or Cold. Hmmmm.

Wouldn't it be interesting to send a blended sample in, one blended cold and another in a pan on the stove and get different results back...? crackmeup


2014 Mazda 3 Hatch 2.0L & 6spd - Idemitsu 0w20 Synthetic @ $0.75 a quart. (thanks Advance Auto Parts for the awesome deal)
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: MolaKule] #4513531
09/11/17 05:02 PM
09/11/17 05:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
This is along the lines of what I was thinking and seems to describe the way most OTC oils are created.
There are the outliers in the boutique market of course but you pay handsomely for them and they often fail to carry any real licenses or certs but rather rely upon weasel words like "meets" or "suitable for" which many of these oils probably are.
How much can a blender modify a commercial add pack before having to certify the resulting blend themselves?
I'm guessing not much in any way that would matter, although I could well be entirely wrong.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: List of VOA's for mixed/blended oils? [Re: Artem] #4513532
09/11/17 05:03 PM
09/11/17 05:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
fdcg27 Offline
fdcg27  Offline
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,183
OH
You don't really need a pan and a stove when you have a 100C+ oil temp engine to do it for you on the first long drive.


18 Accord Hybrid FF
17 Forester 18K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 96K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i

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