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Penrite Racing on the Street? #4510627
09/08/17 07:52 AM
09/08/17 07:52 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
Hansfrax Offline OP
Hansfrax  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
I'm about to do another oil change on my 350z HR, using Penrite Racing "10 Tenths" 5W30. This oil was previously used at the last change as well. Some research in the last few weeks has caused me some concern though.
I had used the same line of oil for years in my sportsbike, so I had initially thought it would be good for a sports car too.

How suitable are these oils for street use, albeit sporty street use with some DD use? The Premium and Racing oil from Penrite has a rather high ZDTP and Boron count going from other UOA's I've found, in fact the label claims 2200+ ppm. I would think that is combined or a total additives package though.

I first read that too high zinc levels have been found to spall the cam lobe faces, but also too little in a highly loaded valve train setup can spell disaster for lobe wear.
Following that is the lack of detergents that race oils can sometimes be formulated with. The label does mention street use FWIW.



The car has had the usual bolt on mods done, intake, decat (test pipes fitted), cat back dual exhaust. It's also had the heads worked on, cams replaced with Tomei 272s on intake and exhaust, and headers fitted. Slightly lower temp thermostat is fitted and an oil cooler upfront too. Reworking the variable valve gubbins and a bit of dynamic time left it at 339.8whp.

Being that the 350z has more of an old school cam and tappet design, my initial thoughts are this oil might be a good fit, especially with the higher loadings from the much more aggressive cams. I'm keen for any input here though.

The car is currently at 164,000kms, and does not burn anything noticeable on the dipstick. I'm a bit overdue at 12,000kms since the last change, but the level is just sitting under the full dot, with just a slight darker tinge to the oil.


I will be taking a used oil sample, and I'll also send in a fresh sample to see what it looks like from the bottle.
Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Last edited by Hansfrax; 09/08/17 07:55 AM.
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4510637
09/08/17 08:01 AM
09/08/17 08:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
Hansfrax Offline OP
Hansfrax  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
Here's the bottle for reference.

[img:left]http://imgur.com/kS6qgsT[/img]


[img:left]http://imgur.com/JziygRl[/img]


[img:left]http://imgur.com/0pHiJKY[/img]

Last edited by Hansfrax; 09/08/17 08:02 AM.
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4510702
09/08/17 09:16 AM
09/08/17 09:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,534
Chicago, IL
dparm Offline
dparm  Offline
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 13,534
Chicago, IL
That labeling is kind of weird. ZDDP of 2200+ is quite high, but then they say it's fine for pretty much every modern engine.

Have you considered something like Mobil 1 0w40? It's a pretty stout oil and readily available. Otherwise, you could step up to something like Motul 300V but get ready to pay a lot more.


2017 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: dparm] #4511051
09/08/17 05:42 PM
09/08/17 05:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
Hansfrax Offline OP
Hansfrax  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
My take is that it's like a manufacturer saying they meet a standard, but they don't actually get the certification. So I'm sure it will be fine in any engine, but in doing so it may eventually ruin the cats, etc.

The reason I've been using penrite is that the few postings I've seen here have actually come back quite positive, maybe on the heavier side of viscosity.
I'll be putting one more bottle through today for the next change as I already bought it last year, but whether I should keep going after that or look somewhere else.

I'm quite concerned with the camshaft loading though, being quite pointy and aggressive.

With the zinc levels, the way it's described doesnt sound like it's straight zddp at 2200+ ppm. "Full zinc package+" on the label sounds more like their total additive pack.

Last edited by Hansfrax; 09/08/17 05:46 PM.
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4511106
09/08/17 07:00 PM
09/08/17 07:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
Penrite's "2200" is all of the additive elements added up, Boron, Zn, Mo etc.

It's fine for a road car.

Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4511123
09/08/17 07:28 PM
09/08/17 07:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Hi Mate,
Welcome !!

Penrite 10-Tenths Racing is a great oil and the 5W30 is my pick of the bunch for regular street use. It's a full synthetic oil made of 100% PAO + Ester, and shear stable.

It has a high TBN of 9.8 from 2960 ppm Calcium, so it is completely suitable for regular (long) oil change intervals (OCI) like you are doing now. Some "race only" oils have a low TBN and must be changed after every race weekend, that is not the case for this Penrite oil which is designed to be used for both racing (short OCI) and on road (long OCI) applications. Your 12,000 KM is fine, but yes I agree, time to change it.

As for zinc, Penrite has been producing high zinc oils for decades, used by thousands of people from both Oz and NZ. If there were any problems with their zinc levels being too high and causing problems, it would have been spotted and fixed up way back in the 80's and 90's if not before. I've never seen any papers or facts to back up these "too much zinc hurts your engine" claims. They are just rumors, and if it is true it must be at levels well above the Penrite levels which are very generous and more than ample for IC engines. The only concern with lots of zinc is that if your car is burning lots of oil then you will eventually poison your exhaust cats. But I can't see your engine being harmed.

As for zinc levels, that Penrite 10-Tenths 5W30 has 1760 ppm zinc, 630 ppm Boron, 10 ppm moly, viscosity KV100 = 10.0 cSt and HTHS = 3.3 cP. Both the zinc and boron are anti-wear adds, so they combine these two numbers to produce the "Full Zinc" equivalent of over 2200 ppm.

The good thing about these Penrite racing oils is that they carry some real specs like the Euro ACEA A1/B1 so you know this oil is a well balanced package suitable both for day to day driving as well as racing.

I would keep using this oil, it is a excellent product, and I don't see any reason to change, unless you start burning lots of oil and are concerned about your cats. BTW a standard ILSAC oil has half the zinc you do, but it's not uncommon to hear of people burning about 1 L during their OCI, they are probably hurting their cat more than you with your very low oil consumption. So don't worry, those ILSAC users aren't worried.

Again, I like this oil a lot, but if I wanted to change brands, then the only other 5W30 oil on my radar would be Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4. This is a full synthetic (Group III) that carries lots of OEM certs: API SL, ACEA A3/B4, MB 229.5 and BMW LL-01, they are some of the toughest engine oil standards that exist right now. The oil is "SN" in quality but is only rated "SL" due to it's elevated zinc levels ( about 1000 ppm) being above the ILSAC limit. It has a TBN of 10.2, viscosity KV100 = 12.0 cSt and HTHS = 3.6 cP

So the Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is still a high zinc oil, just not as high as Penrite, but the Edge is a bit thicker with a stronger HTHS. I like the Penrite 10-Tenths chemistry (PAO and Ester) but I like how the Edge has the serious Euro manufacturers certs from BMW and MB.

These two oils, Penrite 10-Tenths and Castrol Edge A3/B4, are without doubt the two best 5W30 oils available to you and me. Period. Pick one and be happy.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: SR5] #4511190
09/08/17 09:18 PM
09/08/17 09:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
Quote:
As for zinc levels, that Penrite 10-Tenths 5W30 has 1760 ppm zinc, 630 ppm Boron, 100 ppm moly, viscosity KV100 = 10.0 cSt and HTHS = 3.3 cP. Both the zinc and boron are anti-wear adds, so they combine these two numbers to produce the "Full Zinc" equivalent of over 2200 ppm.

Typo above (fixed in quote), that is 100 ppm Moly.

With a TBN of 9.8 that is a generous add pack.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4511226
09/08/17 11:00 PM
09/08/17 11:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
KL31 Offline
KL31  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
I agree with sr5 about the Castrol edge. It's $79 for 10l at repco at the moment, I think. Better value than penrite. It often goes a little cheaper and rarely, it will go stupid cheap at $50 for 10L. I would have bought about 50L but they only had one left at repco when they had that sale last year.

The high Zinc will never hurt your cat either, because you deleted yours lol


95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4511276
09/09/17 02:47 AM
09/09/17 02:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
Hansfrax Offline OP
Hansfrax  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
@SR5: Cheers for that reply mate, that's really great stuff.
I thought as much regarding the total additive pack, it wasn't specifying ZDDP alone. Those TBN figures are something I was trying to find out more on, which has quelled my worries about using it on the street.
The Castrol I will look into and try in future, as yeah the Penrite is a bit pricey. I guess that's the price of the higher grade base stock.

That's got me well reassured using it in this engine while looking good after the cams and all that jazz.

I did the oil today, she was pretty dirty indeed so I'll be shortening down now. I'll do 7000kms with a filter every second time. It might be a bit short, but we'll see how it goes




@KL31: That is crazy cheap man, I don't think we're as lucky here though. I get a good trade discount on oils though, so the Penrite is a bit more manageable
Yeah, I'm not at all worried about the cats as I'm straight piped. O2 sensors might get a bit hammered but hey. My main concern was the floating idea of too much zinc causing spalling and corrosion.

Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4511740
09/09/17 06:14 PM
09/09/17 06:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,751
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,751
New Zealand
I can get oil at Repco and Supercheap cheaper on sale than on a trade account. And of course, no trade discount on sale items. I have enough Edge 5w-30 to last me to the end of time, but only use it in my wife's car and the lawnmower.

We don't want to tell the rest of the world how much we pay for oil, they would only laugh. For some people here ''extended oil change interval'' is half of what really happens.

Last edited by Silk; 09/09/17 06:16 PM.

1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Silk] #4511766
09/09/17 07:14 PM
09/09/17 07:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,884
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: Silk
We don't want to tell the rest of the world how much we pay for oil, they would only laugh. For some people here ''extended oil change interval'' is half of what really happens.


I've got photos around somewhere of M1 0W40, I took a pick in Anthem, Arizona of a gallon jug, for $27.99, came back to Ox, and took a pick of a litre...for $27.99

Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4511944
09/09/17 10:54 PM
09/09/17 10:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
Hansfrax Offline OP
Hansfrax  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 6
NZ
Yeah, at least for the Penrite I'm buying the sale prices work out the same as my companies discount. So it's OK getting it anytime at sales price.

No doubt compared to overseas we get hammered. I laugh when I see USA fuel prices, works out to something like NZD 0.80-0.90c per litre. We're currently at NZD $2.08 per litre. And then they sometimes complain in the states haha

Tyres are another kettle of fish, especially motorbike tyres...unreal sometimes

Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4512402
09/10/17 03:24 PM
09/10/17 03:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
KL31 Offline
KL31  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 551
South OZ
Wow 2.08.... I remember going to NZ years ago for work and seeing their LPG prices being 1.80 or something silly too. How can they be selling for $1 more over there! Must be some [censored] taxing and gauging going on there.


95 MX-3 2.5L|Shell Helix Ultra 5W40|Wix 51356
04 Focus 1.8L|Wesfil Cooper WZ63|Valvoline MST 5W30
05 Kluger 3.3L|Wesfil Cooper WZ418|Magnatec 10W30 Semi Syn
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4512414
09/10/17 03:35 PM
09/10/17 03:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,751
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,751
New Zealand
Well, they were looking into it, but there is an election now, and no way are they going to upset big business.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Penrite Racing on the Street? [Re: Hansfrax] #4512490
09/10/17 05:10 PM
09/10/17 05:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,624
Down Under
When I was in NZ last, I was too interested in sampling their local beer and cider. But yeah, it's a bit more expensive there.

I really like how you can feel you are living in a combined Pakeha & Polynesian community. That gives NZ a special and unique character that I find enjoyable and positive.


Penrite Vantage 10W40 SN & A3/B4 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
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