Recent Topics
Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 vs 10w30
by Snagglefoot
56 minutes 32 seconds ago
LM MoS2. Honest, if not appropriately tested?
by wemay
Today at 09:03 AM
Brisket flat on charcoal
by 04SE
Today at 08:45 AM
Weird Oil level question
by audia6
Today at 08:27 AM
DNA test and opening a can of worms
by WhyMe
Today at 08:11 AM
Ghetto testing a wheel speed sensor
by Nayov
Today at 06:23 AM
dash cam
by DAC2018
Today at 05:08 AM
WoO driver Jason Johnson injured
by bdcardinal
Today at 01:08 AM
Plastic burning smell when WOT
by Jaha24k
Today at 12:57 AM
Duckham's 15w50 Oil 12 one liter bottles
by Lolvoguy
Today at 12:00 AM
Ruger LCP .380
by PW01
Yesterday at 11:24 PM
Launching boat with stick shift
by troutfisher
Yesterday at 11:22 PM
Free oil
by Spitter
Yesterday at 10:53 PM
Porsche Panamera buying advice
by CharlieBauer
Yesterday at 10:04 PM
RC cars
by red7404
Yesterday at 09:36 PM
Any Good 4K Movies ?
by Warstud
Yesterday at 09:06 PM
Gray on Oil Dipstick?
by chinee
Yesterday at 08:41 PM
Clear plastic scratch remover?
by Quattro Pete
Yesterday at 08:15 PM
Parking wars show.
by Chris142
Yesterday at 08:15 PM
set for years
by 93cruiser
Yesterday at 08:07 PM
Newest Members
bwechols, bowupid, pod423, lemaitrix, azzid0906
65303 Registered Users
Who's Online
78 registered (04SE, 87sammy, 2004tdigls, 2015_PSD, 9 invisible), 1478 Guests and 50 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65303 Members
67 Forums
285897 Topics
4771185 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#4508089 - 09/05/17 12:58 PM HDEO in Tropical Environments
ArcticDriver Offline


Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 1139
Loc: USA
What HDEO would you choose?

Is there any advantage to running a multi-viscosity HDEO vs a mono-grade in equatorial climates where ambient temperature seldom, if ever, drops below 27*C (80*F) ? For instance, SE Asia and westward through the Gulf and North Africa?

For instance, a product like Shell Helix SAE 40.

Is there an advantage to full synthetic in these conditions?

Thanks
_________________________
Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles

Top
#4508220 - 09/05/17 04:15 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
Lolvoguy Offline


Registered: 02/06/14
Posts: 2348
Loc: Canada
Rotella
_________________________
06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
03 Suzuki SV650S- One night stand

Top
#4508231 - 09/05/17 04:29 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 9574
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
I feel there is a great advantage to running a multi grade oil. Since the normal engine operating temp is ~ 200F, then a cold start would be possibly ~ 80F? You want to get oil to all pressure lubricated parts ASAP. Ed
_________________________
CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)

Top
#4508327 - 09/05/17 06:36 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
Linctex Online   content


Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 6176
Loc: Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

Is there an advantage to full synthetic in these conditions?


I don't think so....

Better make sure the oil cooler is up to the task, that's all.

I have seen Rotella 15W-40 last for 700+ hours straight in a large diesel running at 100% rated boost and torque. The exhaust manifold & turbo was glowing red the whole time. Oil temp never went over 240*F, and everything & everyone was happy (except for us poor ba$$tarrds working 100+ hour weeks)
_________________________
"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."

Top
#4508377 - 09/05/17 07:35 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: Lolvoguy]
ArcticDriver Offline


Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 1139
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Rotella


I am not sure how that responds to my questions. Did part of your response get cut off?
_________________________
Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles

Top
#4508379 - 09/05/17 07:38 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: Linctex]
ArcticDriver Offline


Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 1139
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver

Is there an advantage to full synthetic in these conditions?


I don't think so....

Better make sure the oil cooler is up to the task, that's all.

I have seen Rotella 15W-40 last for 700+ hours straight in a large diesel running at 100% rated boost and torque. The exhaust manifold & turbo was glowing red the whole time. Oil temp never went over 240*F, and everything & everyone was happy (except for us poor ba$$tarrds working 100+ hour weeks)


Thanks.

Then let me flip the question around.

Although there does not appear to be a disadvantage to a multi-viscosity, would there be an advantage to a mono-grade SAE 40 or SAE 50 since it would be more shear stable?
_________________________
Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles

Top
#4508381 - 09/05/17 07:42 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: Eddie]
ArcticDriver Offline


Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 1139
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I feel there is a great advantage to running a multi grade oil. Since the normal engine operating temp is ~ 200F, then a cold start would be possibly ~ 80F? You want to get oil to all pressure lubricated parts ASAP. Ed


Eddie,

OK. I see what you are saying about wanting to get oil to all pressure lubricated parts ASAP but would an ambient temp of 80*F really be too cold for a mono-grade SAE 40 to flow sufficiently? I am not disagreeing with your statement...I honestly don't know the answer.

Would the importance of oil flow at 80*F start up outweigh the importance of shear stability that can be found in a mono-grade SAE 40 over the life of the oil?
_________________________
Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles

Top
#4508392 - 09/05/17 07:51 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41802
Loc: New Jersey
We run 5w-20 in Ford V8s in heavily used work trucks (lugging 8 drums of oil) in a tropical environment, and the engine outlasts the truck. We run Ursa/Delo 15w-40 in the F250.

Ursa is king there - 40 and 15w-40 are used with dell and total products growing share. Elsewhere shell is king.

Keep in mind some large diesels like to idle to temperature before being loaded, then see consistent load for a long time.

Top
#4508394 - 09/05/17 07:52 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
kschachn Online   content


Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 9418
Loc: Upper Midwest
Well first off the flow of the oil is not going to be affected by that temperature, it would only be an issue below the pumpability limit which is way, way below 80 degrees F. Also in another thread SonofJoe commented that shear stability is not often an issue for multi-grade oils. So I don't think that in this instance especially considering the ambient temperatures it is going to make a bit of difference either way.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4503143/Re:_Molybdenum,_Cam_wear_and_H#Post4503143

If it were me, I'd follow whatever the manufacturer recommended or required for that engine and the expected climate conditions.
_________________________
1994 BMW 530i, 227K
1996 Honda Accord, 262K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 394K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 267K

Top
#4508437 - 09/05/17 08:28 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
Ducked Offline


Registered: 10/25/12
Posts: 4388
Loc: Taiwan
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
What HDEO would you choose?

Is there any advantage to running a multi-viscosity HDEO vs a mono-grade in equatorial climates where ambient temperature seldom, if ever, drops below 27*C (80*F) ? For instance, SE Asia and westward through the Gulf and North Africa?



No

Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver


Is there an advantage to full synthetic in these conditions?

Thanks


Is there an advantage to full synthetic in ANY conditions?

If there is, I'd guess it'd include better thermal and oxidative stability, which I'd expect to be potentially more important in hot climates.

Here in Taiwan, it does get down in the ten C range sometimes in the "not summer" requiring me to roll my shirtsleeves down, and Taiwanese to wear fur-collared parkas and put sweatshirts on huskies.

The book straight weight for the ambient temperature range is SAE-30, but I've used 40 in car and motorcycle and it seems ok. At the moment I'm using roughly equal mix of CPC SAE 40 and Mobil Delvac MX 15W40. It seems OK too. Been in about 4 years.


Edited by Ducked (09/05/17 08:31 PM)

Top
#4509267 - 09/06/17 05:03 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: Ducked]
ArcticDriver Offline


Registered: 01/27/17
Posts: 1139
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ducked


Is there an advantage to full synthetic in ANY conditions?



YES.

Originally Posted By: Ducked

If there is, I'd guess it'd include better thermal and oxidative stability, which I'd expect to be potentially more important in hot climates.


Thanks.
_________________________
Multiple Diesel and Gasoline vehicles

Top
#4509984 - 09/07/17 01:32 PM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
jeff78 Offline


Registered: 06/06/17
Posts: 132
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: ArcticDriver
would an ambient temp of 80*F really be too cold for a mono-grade SAE 40 to flow sufficiently?


That temperature is perfectly fine for SAE 40. The little starter motor in my bike moves VR1 SAE 40 easily in 80F. Also cranks and starts fine at 50F. Haven't tested below that because it doesn't get colder than that in my garage.

Before I started running the VR1 I played around with the numbers from various spec sheets and a viscosity calculator and worked out that the SAE 40 would be no thicker than a typical 20W-50 above freezing. No car or bike with its starter and electrical system in halfway decent shape would have problems cranking and starting a 20W-50 above freezing, so it wouldn't have any issues with SAE 40 either.

As far as shear stability goes, I think how important it is depends on the application. On a car, you'd likely never notice the effects. On a shared sump bike where the oil lubricates the transmission and gear shifting mechanism, the symptoms are pretty obvious and tends to annoy people when it happens.

The VR1 in my bike has 4000 miles on it now. It still shifts like it did when the oil was new.

Top
#4510771 - 09/08/17 11:07 AM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
BrocLuno Offline


Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 5526
Loc: Kalifornia Kollective
OK, so I don't live in the tropics, but I do live where it hardly ever freezes. So I've pondered the question of SAE mono grades and ran a thread about it here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4449306/1

Lots of fluff talk, but some very knowledgeable folks chimed in. Read through and make your own conclusions ... Some folks here have switched to mono grades and are doing well, UOA's and all smile

There are reasons to run Mono's when you don't need cold temp magic chemistry. Mono's are preferred in marine and aviation piston engine systems. No shear stability issues are a big factor. But so is upper cylinder wall protection on start-up. SAE mono grades perform well well in cylinder wall testing for retained film strength in the ring band.

You have absolutely no need of a 15W or even a 20W. SAE 40 is good down to near water freezing temp for cold flow, and you will never get there. If you have good availability of good modern SAE mono grades with MFG recommendations (CAT, Cummins, Mercedes, Volvo, etc.), there is no reason to shy away from them smile


Edited by BrocLuno (09/08/17 11:09 AM)
_________________________
Formerly in marine engineering. In an earlier life I owned my own petroleum tank truck, and hauled for the majors and independent's.

Top
#4511483 - 09/09/17 11:32 AM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: ArcticDriver]
FordCapriDriver Online   content


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2385
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
80F is perfectly ok to use SAE 40.

20W-50 is even ok to use at slightly below freezing temps, down to -10C ( +15F ) provided that the owner's manual of the car in question allows oil viscosities more on the heavy side of things.

+1 to what Broc said.
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
#4511485 - 09/09/17 11:33 AM Re: HDEO in Tropical Environments [Re: Eddie]
FordCapriDriver Online   content


Registered: 10/22/15
Posts: 2385
Loc: Balearic Islands , Spain
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I feel there is a great advantage to running a multi grade oil. Since the normal engine operating temp is ~ 200F, then a cold start would be possibly ~ 80F? You want to get oil to all pressure lubricated parts ASAP. Ed


Monogrades will flow just fine at 80F.
Even 20W-XX oils are ok down to slightly below freezing.
_________________________
1975 Ford Capri II Ghia 3000 V6, - Valvoline VR1 20W-50
1988 Ford Escort MkIV 1.6 Xr3i Cabrio, - Shell Rimula R4X 15W-40 HDEO.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >