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#4507025 - 09/04/17 08:53 AM Good ole CAFE 17 years later
motor_oil_madman Offline


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 4858
Loc: Houston, Texas
So back in 2001 many car makers moved from 5w30 to 5w20 and people thought things like oh they changed the tolerances to accept the thinner oil. Now here we are and last time I checked, US cars sent to places like Africa or Australia will run off of 5w40 or even 15w40. I'm just curious how many people deviate from the owners manual on oil grade and just run 5w30 like pre 2001
_________________________
2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.


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#4507030 - 09/04/17 09:03 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
69GTX Offline


Registered: 09/23/15
Posts: 3815
Loc: Connecticut
I was fooled initially by that CAFE switch on my 2002 4.6L. I drove it for several years on the OEM specced 5w-20 before finding Bitog. It was then I dug deeper and realized my 1997 with the exact same 4.6L was run on 5w-30 its entire life of 230K miles. So it was back to 5w-30 for my 2002. In doing quite a bit of reading on Ford mod motors on 20/30/40 grade oils, it appeared that the heads often showed excessive wear by 100-150K miles using the 20 grade. Yet, relatively no wear on 10/15w-40 grades (some HDEO's) in fleet use. At least those were my findings.
_________________________
----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs

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#4507031 - 09/04/17 09:03 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
Jimzz Offline


Registered: 10/03/14
Posts: 1147
Loc: NoVA
My truck calls for 5w20 but I run 5w30 or 10w30 mix.

Funny many newer vehicles, esp turbos and high performance engines, call for 5w30 in the US again. My SiLs Lexus and a customers turbo Ford F150 both call for 5w30 for example.
_________________________
yup

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#4507039 - 09/04/17 09:19 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
Spike555 Offline


Registered: 08/15/17
Posts: 36
Loc: West Michigan
The only one I follow the book on is my wifes Sedona, it calls for 5w-20 and I use full syn 5w-20 but she only drives 100 miles/wk and it's all short trips city driving.
Anything thicker won't get hot enough to thin out and reach every nook and cranny.
In my Land Cruiser I use T6 5w-40.

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#4507083 - 09/04/17 10:02 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
CT8 Offline


Registered: 10/09/14
Posts: 11009
Loc: Idaho
Which nooks and crannies will the oil not reach?
_________________________
"Don't let your preconceived notions get in the way of facts."
Geoff Metcalf

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#4507136 - 09/04/17 10:49 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 32656
Loc: ME
My 2005 prius oil filler cap reads 5w30 and the manual says I can run 10w30 if I can't find the 5. If this car wasn't born for fuel economy IDK what is.

A later chart indicates 0w20 thru 5w30.

I've got 5w20 in 'er basically because I bought a bunch on sale without a car to put it in like a good BITOGer. So I look at it as, "it tolerates it". wink

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#4507145 - 09/04/17 11:00 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 7094
Loc: Colorado
*raises hand* I don't go by CAFE's recommendations, I go by the engineers' that made the engine. If they happen to be the same, great.
_________________________
Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete

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#4507157 - 09/04/17 11:13 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
simple_gifts Offline


Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 11949
Loc: Middlesex County CT
CAFE doesn't specify oil weights IIRC; it is a fuel economy requirement.


Edited by simple_gifts (09/04/17 11:13 AM)
_________________________
2004 Prius; 92K ML Syn 5W-30
2007 Yaris 68K 0w-40 Castrol
2006 B2300;130K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise

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#4507166 - 09/04/17 11:23 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
Johnny2Bad Offline


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 1810
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
I use the oil I want to use. I do check the manufacturer's recommendation, but use it as a guide, not a law.
_________________________
'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]

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#4507169 - 09/04/17 11:23 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: Kuato]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 9560
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Kuato
*raises hand* I don't go by CAFE's recommendations, I go by the engineers' that made the engine. If they happen to be the same, great.
The problem arises when the engineers provide different specifications for identical vehicles sold in other regions of the world. I'd suggest the requirements for most of the Southwest are little different than much of Australia, in fact. If I lived in Florida, I'd use the grade suggestions for Australia or South Africa.


Edited by HerrStig (09/04/17 11:25 AM)

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#4507189 - 09/04/17 11:52 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: HerrStig]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 7094
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Kuato
*raises hand* I don't go by CAFE's recommendations, I go by the engineers' that made the engine. If they happen to be the same, great.
The problem arises when the engineers provide different specifications for identical vehicles sold in other regions of the world. I'd suggest the requirements for most of the Southwest are little different than much of Australia, in fact. If I lived in Florida, I'd use the grade suggestions for Australia or South Africa.


I don't see this as a problem at all.

For the US market, manufacturers are required to specify the oil used during CAFE testing, and no other - the engineers' hands are tied. Simply access the recommendations for any non-CAFE (or similar regulation) country and you will see what the engineers actually recommend.

Totally agree with your analysis by region and weather. thumbsup
_________________________
Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete

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#4507193 - 09/04/17 11:56 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: Johnny2Bad]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 13661
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I use the oil I want to use. I do check the manufacturer's recommendation, but use it as a guide, not a law.


I agree. The first engines I purchased that called for 5-20 was 2 2007 Fords with the 2.3 and 2.0 Duratech I 4's. At first I used 5-30 (what I used for years in older Fords). Then when I joined BITOG, Johnny and Fissker persuaded me to try M1 0-20, and I was pleasantly surprised with the benifits. Fissker used M1 0-20AFE in a mid 90's Ford that called for 5-30. He had 300K on it when sold and he even did 20K OCIs. After switching I was sold on 0-20AFE. Now years later I have had considerable experience with the 0-20( around 400K total) and I am still very satisfied with the protection and performance it gives my engines, from -10F to +109F.


Edited by tig1 (09/04/17 11:59 AM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 227,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 49K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and MC LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#4507196 - 09/04/17 11:58 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: 69GTX]
Kuato Offline


Registered: 10/23/05
Posts: 7094
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I was fooled initially by that CAFE switch on my 2002 4.6L. I drove it for several years on the OEM specced 5w-20 before finding Bitog. It was then I dug deeper and realized my 1997 with the exact same 4.6L was run on 5w-30 its entire life of 230K miles. So it was back to 5w-30 for my 2002. In doing quite a bit of reading on Ford mod motors on 20/30/40 grade oils, it appeared that the heads often showed excessive wear by 100-150K miles using the 20 grade. Yet, relatively no wear on 10/15w-40 grades (some HDEO's) in fleet use. At least those were my findings.


Your findings match with others. One that sticks out in my mind is the Schaeffer Oil Million Mile Van. Specified 5w20 for the Ford 5.4 V8, they used 15w40 its entire life with low or no wear....
_________________________
Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete

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#4507250 - 09/04/17 01:28 PM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
Alex_V Offline


Registered: 04/10/16
Posts: 1155
Loc: Campbellsville, KY
My Cruze is one of those newer, small turbo engines that calls for 5w30, and that's what it's had all of its 101,000 miles. That's what the owner's manual specs for all climates so that's what I stay with. My older Chevys with pushrod V8's, however, get 10w30. Though the fill caps may say 5w30, I've come from 20w50, to 15w40, to 10w30 and I have peace of mind that the Schaeffer's 7000 10/30 will be durable enough to negate any need for thicker oil as a shear cushion. However, I've pondered going down to 5/30 (hey, owner's manual allows for it) and just can't bring myself to do it.
_________________________
I like Chevy and Valvoline.

'13 Cruze, 1.4T, 112K
'85 GMC C3500, 454, 130K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 167K
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K

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#4507763 - 09/05/17 04:46 AM Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 29792
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
So back in 2001 many car makers moved from 5w30 to 5w20 and people thought things like oh they changed the tolerances to accept the thinner oil. Now here we are and last time I checked, US cars sent to places like Africa or Australia will run off of 5w40 or even 15w40. I'm just curious how many people deviate from the owners manual on oil grade and just run 5w30 like pre 2001



I went full circle. I followed the OM and used the 20 grade oil, and decided to switch to 5W30 and stay with it. In my case engine internals didn't change, only the oil spec. Then I talked with people who know a lot more than I do about engines and oil and decided "I" made the right move.
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God Bless Our Troops


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