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Good ole CAFE 17 years later #4507025
09/04/17 07:53 AM
09/04/17 07:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,126
Houston, Texas
motor_oil_madman Offline OP
motor_oil_madman  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,126
Houston, Texas
So back in 2001 many car makers moved from 5w30 to 5w20 and people thought things like oh they changed the tolerances to accept the thinner oil. Now here we are and last time I checked, US cars sent to places like Africa or Australia will run off of 5w40 or even 15w40. I'm just curious how many people deviate from the owners manual on oil grade and just run 5w30 like pre 2001


2007.5 dodge cummins 6.7 liter. Chevron Delo400 15w40. 7000 mile or 250-300hr intervals.

Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507030
09/04/17 08:03 AM
09/04/17 08:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,948
Connecticut
69GTX Offline
69GTX  Offline
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,948
Connecticut
I was fooled initially by that CAFE switch on my 2002 4.6L. I drove it for several years on the OEM specced 5w-20 before finding Bitog. It was then I dug deeper and realized my 1997 with the exact same 4.6L was run on 5w-30 its entire life of 230K miles. So it was back to 5w-30 for my 2002. In doing quite a bit of reading on Ford mod motors on 20/30/40 grade oils, it appeared that the heads often showed excessive wear by 100-150K miles using the 20 grade. Yet, relatively no wear on 10/15w-40 grades (some HDEO's) in fleet use. At least those were my findings.


----------------

2001 Lincoln Cont 4.6L DOHC/ 39K mi / QS HM 5w30 / FUG XG2
1999 Camaro SS M6 /19K /Mobil 1 0w40 /Fram UG /GM MTL-ATF
1969 Ply GTX/RRs
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507031
09/04/17 08:03 AM
09/04/17 08:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,349
NoVA
Jimzz Offline
Jimzz  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,349
NoVA
My truck calls for 5w20 but I run 5w30 or 10w30 mix.

Funny many newer vehicles, esp turbos and high performance engines, call for 5w30 in the US again. My SiLs Lexus and a customers turbo Ford F150 both call for 5w30 for example.


yup
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507039
09/04/17 08:19 AM
09/04/17 08:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 36
West Michigan
Spike555 Offline
Spike555  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 36
West Michigan
The only one I follow the book on is my wifes Sedona, it calls for 5w-20 and I use full syn 5w-20 but she only drives 100 miles/wk and it's all short trips city driving.
Anything thicker won't get hot enough to thin out and reach every nook and cranny.
In my Land Cruiser I use T6 5w-40.

Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507083
09/04/17 09:02 AM
09/04/17 09:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,583
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,583
Idaho
Which nooks and crannies will the oil not reach?


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507136
09/04/17 09:49 AM
09/04/17 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,589
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,589
ME
My 2005 prius oil filler cap reads 5w30 and the manual says I can run 10w30 if I can't find the 5. If this car wasn't born for fuel economy IDK what is.

A later chart indicates 0w20 thru 5w30.

I've got 5w20 in 'er basically because I bought a bunch on sale without a car to put it in like a good BITOGer. So I look at it as, "it tolerates it". wink

Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507145
09/04/17 10:00 AM
09/04/17 10:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
*raises hand* I don't go by CAFE's recommendations, I go by the engineers' that made the engine. If they happen to be the same, great.


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507157
09/04/17 10:13 AM
09/04/17 10:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,071
Middlesex County CT
simple_gifts Offline
simple_gifts  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,071
Middlesex County CT
CAFE doesn't specify oil weights IIRC; it is a fuel economy requirement.

Last edited by simple_gifts; 09/04/17 10:13 AM.

2004 Prius; 102K; ASL
2007 Yaris 78K 0w-40 Castrol
2006 B2300;132K;ALM


Was driving an ox cart; Now on the USS Enterprise
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507166
09/04/17 10:23 AM
09/04/17 10:23 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,160
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,160
Saskatchewan, Canada
I use the oil I want to use. I do check the manufacturer's recommendation, but use it as a guide, not a law.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: Kuato] #4507169
09/04/17 10:23 AM
09/04/17 10:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
HerrStig Offline
HerrStig  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Kuato
*raises hand* I don't go by CAFE's recommendations, I go by the engineers' that made the engine. If they happen to be the same, great.
The problem arises when the engineers provide different specifications for identical vehicles sold in other regions of the world. I'd suggest the requirements for most of the Southwest are little different than much of Australia, in fact. If I lived in Florida, I'd use the grade suggestions for Australia or South Africa.

Last edited by HerrStig; 09/04/17 10:25 AM.
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: HerrStig] #4507189
09/04/17 10:52 AM
09/04/17 10:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Kuato
*raises hand* I don't go by CAFE's recommendations, I go by the engineers' that made the engine. If they happen to be the same, great.
The problem arises when the engineers provide different specifications for identical vehicles sold in other regions of the world. I'd suggest the requirements for most of the Southwest are little different than much of Australia, in fact. If I lived in Florida, I'd use the grade suggestions for Australia or South Africa.


I don't see this as a problem at all.

For the US market, manufacturers are required to specify the oil used during CAFE testing, and no other - the engineers' hands are tied. Simply access the recommendations for any non-CAFE (or similar regulation) country and you will see what the engineers actually recommend.

Totally agree with your analysis by region and weather. thumbsup


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: Johnny2Bad] #4507193
09/04/17 10:56 AM
09/04/17 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,983
Illinois
tig1 Online content
tig1  Online Content
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 13,983
Illinois
Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
I use the oil I want to use. I do check the manufacturer's recommendation, but use it as a guide, not a law.


I agree. The first engines I purchased that called for 5-20 was 2 2007 Fords with the 2.3 and 2.0 Duratech I 4's. At first I used 5-30 (what I used for years in older Fords). Then when I joined BITOG, Johnny and Fissker persuaded me to try M1 0-20, and I was pleasantly surprised with the benifits. Fissker used M1 0-20AFE in a mid 90's Ford that called for 5-30. He had 300K on it when sold and he even did 20K OCIs. After switching I was sold on 0-20AFE. Now years later I have had considerable experience with the 0-20( around 400K total) and I am still very satisfied with the protection and performance it gives my engines, from -10F to +109F.

Last edited by tig1; 09/04/17 10:59 AM.

2007 Ford Fusion 235,000 miles
M1 0-20 EP
2017 Ford Fusion 60K
M1 0-20 EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF and Valvoline LV
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters

Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: 69GTX] #4507196
09/04/17 10:58 AM
09/04/17 10:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Kuato Offline
Kuato  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,094
Colorado
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I was fooled initially by that CAFE switch on my 2002 4.6L. I drove it for several years on the OEM specced 5w-20 before finding Bitog. It was then I dug deeper and realized my 1997 with the exact same 4.6L was run on 5w-30 its entire life of 230K miles. So it was back to 5w-30 for my 2002. In doing quite a bit of reading on Ford mod motors on 20/30/40 grade oils, it appeared that the heads often showed excessive wear by 100-150K miles using the 20 grade. Yet, relatively no wear on 10/15w-40 grades (some HDEO's) in fleet use. At least those were my findings.


Your findings match with others. One that sticks out in my mind is the Schaeffer Oil Million Mile Van. Specified 5w20 for the Ford 5.4 V8, they used 15w40 its entire life with low or no wear....


Thick vs Thin test: 15k / 43k miles complete
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507250
09/04/17 12:28 PM
09/04/17 12:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,198
Campbellsville, KY
My Cruze is one of those newer, small turbo engines that calls for 5w30, and that's what it's had all of its 101,000 miles. That's what the owner's manual specs for all climates so that's what I stay with. My older Chevys with pushrod V8's, however, get 10w30. Though the fill caps may say 5w30, I've come from 20w50, to 15w40, to 10w30 and I have peace of mind that the Schaeffer's 7000 10/30 will be durable enough to negate any need for thicker oil as a shear cushion. However, I've pondered going down to 5/30 (hey, owner's manual allows for it) and just can't bring myself to do it.


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
'85 Mercedes 300TD, OM617 turbo, 217K (wife's)
'67 Suburban, 350, 331K
Re: Good ole CAFE 17 years later [Re: motor_oil_madman] #4507763
09/05/17 03:46 AM
09/05/17 03:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,992
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 30,992
NY
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
So back in 2001 many car makers moved from 5w30 to 5w20 and people thought things like oh they changed the tolerances to accept the thinner oil. Now here we are and last time I checked, US cars sent to places like Africa or Australia will run off of 5w40 or even 15w40. I'm just curious how many people deviate from the owners manual on oil grade and just run 5w30 like pre 2001



I went full circle. I followed the OM and used the 20 grade oil, and decided to switch to 5W30 and stay with it. In my case engine internals didn't change, only the oil spec. Then I talked with people who know a lot more than I do about engines and oil and decided "I" made the right move.


God Bless Our Troops

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