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GM LS Thermostats #4504768
09/01/17 07:01 PM
09/01/17 07:01 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,853
out there
spasm3 Online content OP
spasm3  Online Content OP

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,853
out there
I am talking with a tuner about my avalanche, that i use for towing. He is recommending that i install a 160 degree thermostat. I know that probably allows him to run more aggressive timing.

I am hesitant to do that. I might consider a 170 thermostat. I think stock is 187 degrees. I'm not sure that 160 is a good choice especially for winter , and i would worry about how the cylinders would wear with the block at only 160.

Should i worry about running a temp that low?

Thoughts?


13 elantra 75k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 9500 miles m1 0w30
Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4504774
09/01/17 07:06 PM
09/01/17 07:06 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
AVB Offline
AVB  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,406
Georgia
I don't think that I would do it. I don't see where there would be a benefit.

Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4504782
09/01/17 07:18 PM
09/01/17 07:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,831
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,831
Crawfordville FL
I would ask for an explanation


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4504794
09/01/17 07:26 PM
09/01/17 07:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 120
TX
fields Offline
fields  Offline

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 120
TX
I have a friend that puts a 170 in all of his trucks. Makes everything run cooler, including the transmission.

Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4504798
09/01/17 07:30 PM
09/01/17 07:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,785
Cedarbrae, Ontario
xxch4osxx Offline
xxch4osxx  Offline

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,785
Cedarbrae, Ontario
I wouldn't do it. Running that cool might cause the ECM to run in rich mode constantly.

Last edited by xxch4osxx; 09/01/17 07:31 PM.

2015 RAM SXT Crew Cab 5.7 with 6 speed tranny.

2008 Mazda 3 GS Sport Hatchback 5sp MT (Girlfriend's car)

Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: xxch4osxx] #4504824
09/01/17 07:58 PM
09/01/17 07:58 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,853
out there
spasm3 Online content OP
spasm3  Online Content OP

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 9,853
out there
Originally Posted By: fields
I have a friend that puts a 170 in all of his trucks. Makes everything run cooler, including the transmission.
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I wouldn't do it. Running that cool might cause the ECM to run in rich mode constantly.


170 i might do.

The ecm will be a custom tume, i'm worried about the mechanical effects of running that cool all the time.


13 elantra 75k 5w30 QSUD
03 chevy avalanche 80k synpwr 5w30
17 mazda cx-5 9500 miles m1 0w30
Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4504831
09/01/17 08:08 PM
09/01/17 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,589
Flaherty, KY
92saturnsl2 Offline
92saturnsl2  Offline

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,589
Flaherty, KY
I had a 2001 supercharged Pontiac Bonneville, where some recommended a 160* t-stat. I tried it once, it set an SES light almost immediately (coolant not up to temp code) and ran rather poor with especially poor gas mileage. I believe the ECU stays in open-loop with that code, where it reads fuel enrichment off a map, instead of using the O2 sensor feedback. I quickly tossed it and tried a 180* stat. With the 180, I didn't get the code and the car performed acceptably but with less than average gas mileage.

Some months later, I took the car to Ohio to get custom dyno-tuned and the ECU programmed, by a company that specializes in the 3800 V6. They said a 160 t-stat is worthless, and the 180 can be of some benefit if the ECU is tuned for it; on a stock car they suggested using the stock 195F thermostat.


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Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4505123
09/02/17 07:24 AM
09/02/17 07:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,202
Campbellsville, KY
Alex_V Offline
Alex_V  Offline

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,202
Campbellsville, KY
I've seen several engines run cool with no side effects related to longevity, but I'd be concerned about efficient combustion with a T-stat that cool, not to mention CEL's, etc. It's just me, but a 30-degree cooler thermostat to accomidate a tune sounds like a band-aid.


To quote a friend, "Synthetics, man."

'85 GMC C3500, 454, 132K
'82 Mercedes 300CD, OM617 turbo, 173K (totaled 2018, in rehab)
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Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4505141
09/02/17 07:42 AM
09/02/17 07:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,181
iowa
Traction Offline
Traction  Offline

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,181
iowa
There is NO benefit at all to running a 160 t-stat in an engine designed to run in the 190-210 range.


Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
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Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: Traction] #4505299
09/02/17 10:35 AM
09/02/17 10:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,328
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,328
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Traction
There is NO benefit at all to running a 160 t-stat in an engine designed to run in the 190-210 range.


Nonsense. Wildly platform specific and depends if the tune is altered correctly.

With all the variance and subtleties in programming across many different mfgrs you simply cannot be so specific.


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: Alex_V] #4505304
09/02/17 10:42 AM
09/02/17 10:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,328
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,328
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
I've seen several engines run cool with no side effects related to longevity, but I'd be concerned about efficient combustion with a T-stat that cool, not to mention CEL's, etc. It's just me, but a 30-degree cooler thermostat to accomidate a tune sounds like a band-aid.


And it probably is, on that car. Many platforms are hard to get much out of, they are already set up well or the tuner world does not accommodate them.

But just for kicks, let's talk about my 6.1 and a cooler 'stat. This cars programming kills timing like crazy at above 180 degrees. If you run just any 180 and can't alter the fan settings then you are correct: No real benefit.

But, if you run a Moto-Rad 176 and set the myriad fan settings to the correct temps you get an engine with a completely different personality, much snappier and responsive. This also reduces the KR values significantly. Cylinder bores and oil still get hot enough to reduce wear and engine life is unaffected.

This is why it's called "tuning", it requires specific care related to your individual vehicles quirks...

Last edited by SteveSRT8; 09/02/17 10:43 AM.

"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: spasm3] #4505326
09/02/17 11:06 AM
09/02/17 11:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,181
iowa
Traction Offline
Traction  Offline

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,181
iowa
I was curious why the OE's don't use a 160 t-stat in everything if it works better by keeping the engine cold? Seems like it would take much longer at the lower coolant temp to warm up all the mass of the engine, plus the oil. I never hammer down on any engine until it is 180 degree plus.


Certified Tire Service Instructor since 2009
50 Chevy Fire Truck
13 Tahoe Pursuit
97 C5 Corvette
00 BMW M Roadster
02 Camry
12 Camry
81 Camaro
55 Chevy C4
Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: Traction] #4508707
09/06/17 06:04 AM
09/06/17 06:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,328
Sunny Florida
SteveSRT8 Offline
SteveSRT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,328
Sunny Florida
Originally Posted By: Traction
I was curious why the OE's don't use a 160 t-stat in everything if it works better by keeping the engine cold? Seems like it would take much longer at the lower coolant temp to warm up all the mass of the engine, plus the oil. I never hammer down on any engine until it is 180 degree plus.


GM in their V8's run at 205-210 all the time! The benefits are real improvements in fuel economy and long engine life. Run those cylinder bores too cool and the wear goes up fast. With modern oils it is much more difficult to run them too hot (as far as wear goes). Of course the real goal these days is whatever mpg they can eke out of the platform.

There is huge variance in tuning strategies across platforms. Even within the same mfgr. So you must know those specific subtleties in order to tune for power without harming your engine...


"In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith."
J. William Fulbright
Best ET-12.79 @ 111 mph
4340 pounds, Street tires
Just like we go to Publix
Re: GM LS Thermostats [Re: SteveSRT8] #4509120
09/06/17 02:12 PM
09/06/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,334
Middle of Iowa
DriveHard Offline
DriveHard  Offline

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,334
Middle of Iowa
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Traction
I was curious why the OE's don't use a 160 t-stat in everything if it works better by keeping the engine cold? Seems like it would take much longer at the lower coolant temp to warm up all the mass of the engine, plus the oil. I never hammer down on any engine until it is 180 degree plus.


GM in their V8's run at 205-210 all the time! The benefits are real improvements in fuel economy and long engine life. Run those cylinder bores too cool and the wear goes up fast. With modern oils it is much more difficult to run them too hot (as far as wear goes). Of course the real goal these days is whatever mpg they can eke out of the platform.

There is huge variance in tuning strategies across platforms. Even within the same mfgr. So you must know those specific subtleties in order to tune for power without harming your engine...


Can someone show that lowering coolant temp to 160 degrees increases engine wear rate? I do know that most all Marine thermostats are set at 160 degrees!


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2011 Silverado Crew Cab LT 6.2L/6spd (tow pig)
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