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Redline #4504419
09/01/17 12:17 PM
09/01/17 12:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Here is some correspondence I had with Redline about thier calcium package. Read up from the bottom.

XXX,



Calcium has been and continues to be the most effective additive for cleanliness and wear protection. It is highly unlikely the industry will move away from it as an additive but engine manufacturers will learn to deal with LSPI. There are a number of factors that can impact LSPI, unknown how our oil, the base stock and additives used would compare to others.



Regards,



Dave Granquist



P: (+1) 707.751.2914 |

O: (+1) 707.745.6100 |

6100 Egret Ct | Benicia, CA 94510

Red Line Synthetic Oil

http://www.redlineoil.com/images/logo.png







From: XXX [mailto:XXX]
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 9:16 PM
To: Granquist, David
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL]Red Line Oil Web Site Contact Form



David,

The following excerpt is taken directly from the Chevron Oronite website:

Many factors have been demonstrated to impact LSPI, including: engine designs, fuel composition, and lubricant composition. On the lubricant side, the most noticeable impact has been from the detergent chemistry. Oils with higher concentrations of calcium, which is found in many detergent systems, have been shown to increase the frequency of LSPI. The exact chemistry of the detergent is less important to LSPI than the calcium content. Conversely, magnesium-based detergents do not seem to promote LSPI. Although reducing calcium may seem like a solution to control LSPI, there may be other performance tradeoffs to consider. In addition there are other additives that can also help reduce LSPI events. This provides an opportunity to formulate for robust LSPI performance, while maintaining the level of detergency needed to help keep engines clean and neutralize acids generated during combustion.

Aside from the detergent system, there are many other additive and lubricant compositions that can influence LSPI. Molybdenum compounds, for example, not only provide frictional benefits, but also have been shown to decrease LSPI when used at high levels. Base oils also affect LSPI events. Both the quality of the base stock (i.e. Group II versus Group III) and the viscosity can have secondary effects on LSPI. The effect on LSPI from these other lubricant aspects are not as significant as the detergent system, but can shift the LSPI frequency in oils that are more prone to LSPI.
LSPI Chart: High or Low Calcium





Here is the link to the page:

https://www.oronite.com/products/lspi.asp



R,

XXX



On Thursday, August 31, 2017 10:37 AM, "Granquist, David" <[email protected]> wrote:



XXX,



Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, I am not aware of any specific direct corelation between calcium and intake valve deposits in DI engines, though I will speak with our Chemist. The information that I have seen seems to indicate the intake deposits have more to do with the specific engine, its design, the EGR and PCV level and likely other factors. Using our SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner on a continious basis in direct injection engine will help control injector and combustion chamber deposits, the detergents can remaining active through combustion which helps control EGR and intake valve deposits.



Regards,



Dave Granquist



P: (+1) 707.751.2914 |

O: (+1) 707.745.6100 |

6100 Egret Ct | Benicia, CA 94510

Red Line Synthetic Oil

http://www.redlineoil.com/images/logo.png





From: RSC:RLO Website
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:11 PM
To: RSC:RLO Info
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Red Line Oil Web Site Contact Form





Below are the results from the Red Line Oil Web Site Contact Form submitted 8/30/2017 8:10:34 PM:

Full Name: XXX
Company:
Email Address: XXX
Phone:
Address:
City:
State:
Zip:
Region:
Country: United States
Request Type: Technical Request

Comments: Question: I have been a user of Redline products for 20 years. I now have two brand new Ford F 150 pickups, both with the 2.7 Ecoboost, which is Direct Injected turbo engine. One of the problems with direct injected engines, is that calcium additives can exacerbate intake and piston deposits, particularly during (and possibly causing) Low Speed Pre Ignition(LSPI). Redline Oil has a pretty stout calcium package. Any thoughts on this?



Last edited by bigj_16; 09/01/17 12:20 PM.
Re: Redline [Re: bigj_16] #4504433
09/01/17 12:29 PM
09/01/17 12:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,803
Crawfordville FL
Downshift


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: Redline [Re: bigj_16] #4504483
09/01/17 01:14 PM
09/01/17 01:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,415
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,415
New England
GM is going to tell drivers to use dexos1 Gen 2 for their DIT engines and other makers will eventually be able to say to use GF6 oils.
This shift may have little no effect on Redline due to its niche market...I know that Amsoil is at least making noise about tackling LSPI.

http://www.amsoil.com/lander/lspi-update/


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Redline [Re: bigj_16] #4504490
09/01/17 01:16 PM
09/01/17 01:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
"other makers will eventually be able to say to use GF6 oils"

I think that is exactly what Ford is going to do as soon as GF-6 hits the streets.

Re: Redline [Re: bigj_16] #4504492
09/01/17 01:18 PM
09/01/17 01:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
"AMSOIL provided 100 percent protection against LSPI in the engine test required by the GM dexos1 Gen 2 specification."
I wonder exactly what this means.

Re: Redline [Re: bigj_16] #4504501
09/01/17 01:27 PM
09/01/17 01:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,415
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,415
New England
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
"AMSOIL provided 100 percent protection against LSPI in the engine test required by the GM dexos1 Gen 2 specification."
I wonder exactly what this means.


Me, too...that whole page is confusing to me.
There is the big "COMING SOON" banner, but the verbiage seems to imply that they already passed the relevant LSPI test at one point while also suggesting their whole line might be reformulated elsewhere. Hard for me to imagine that the SS oils I looked at would blaze through an LSPI test with flying colors, but that doesn't mean that it didn't happen.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Redline [Re: bigj_16] #4504703
09/01/17 04:57 PM
09/01/17 04:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 616
DFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 616
DFW
I read somewhere that Amsoil's new formulation is ready, but will not be distributed until previous stock has been purchased/delivered.

Re: Redline [Re: bigj_16] #4504838
09/01/17 07:15 PM
09/01/17 07:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 83
Vermont
Toptierpao Offline
Toptierpao  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 83
Vermont
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
"AMSOIL provided 100 percent protection against LSPI in the engine test required by the GM dexos1 Gen 2 specification."
I wonder exactly what this means.


It means and Amsoil claims that in testing for LSPI, that all three of their oils showed "zero" LSPI events.Five LSPI events can occur before the oil fails. This is not really breaking news to the engineers at Amsoil as the previous SS also protected against LSPI. There is a lot going on in the oil industry,and with LSPI being a major issue,its a perfect time to let the cat out of the bag so to speak. With that said,their new formulation across all three tiers of oil are superior to the previous versions.

Re: Redline [Re: Toptierpao] #4504870
09/01/17 07:52 PM
09/01/17 07:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
bigj_16 Offline OP
bigj_16  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,292
Douglas County, Colorado
Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
"AMSOIL provided 100 percent protection against LSPI in the engine test required by the GM dexos1 Gen 2 specification."
I wonder exactly what this means.


It means and Amsoil claims that in testing for LSPI, that all three of their oils showed "zero" LSPI events.Five LSPI events can occur before the oil fails. This is not really breaking news to the engineers at Amsoil as the previous SS also protected against LSPI. There is a lot going on in the oil industry,and with LSPI being a major issue,its a perfect time to let the cat out of the bag so to speak. With that said,their new formulation across all three tiers of oil are superior to the previous versions.




Thanx!

Re: Redline [Re: Toptierpao] #4508129
09/05/17 12:43 PM
09/05/17 12:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,415
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,415
New England
Originally Posted By: Toptierpao
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
"AMSOIL provided 100 percent protection against LSPI in the engine test required by the GM dexos1 Gen 2 specification."
I wonder exactly what this means.


It means and Amsoil claims that in testing for LSPI, that all three of their oils showed "zero" LSPI events.Five LSPI events can occur before the oil fails. This is not really breaking news to the engineers at Amsoil as the previous SS also protected against LSPI. There is a lot going on in the oil industry,and with LSPI being a major issue,its a perfect time to let the cat out of the bag so to speak. With that said,their new formulation across all three tiers of oil are superior to the previous versions.


Any idea when Amsoil might go "live" with their updated formulations and also (hopefully) provide their usual detailed test info for these oils on their webpage?

I'd sure take a good look at their 0W30 if they keep a low NOACK loss comparable to the last formulation and give some assurance that they are truly LSPI-resistant.


2014 Forester XT, 90000 miles
Last Change;
M1 5W30 d1G2
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter

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