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AR-10 #4504404
09/01/17 12:49 PM
09/01/17 12:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Online content OP
john_pifer  Online Content OP
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Been thinking a little more about a fairly lightweight .308 rifle. Why not an AR-10? They seem to have a reputation for being fairly accurate, lightweight, reliable, and you can get one without selling a kidney.

I know some of y'all own AR-10s. What do you have? What do you really like about it? Anything about it that you've discovered that you don't like?

I usually tend not to buy top-of-the-line, but more like 7/10, to avoid diminishing returns for my $. So, I like quality, but I like to get a lot for my money.

I'm thinking 16" barrel and left-side charging handle. I'm not interested in suppressing. And, as I said earlier, weight is a priority. Like to have something that's 7-8 lbs. in stock configuration.

What's better - direct gas impingement or piston? Pros/cons of each?

Also, what optics do you guys like? I have no experience with optics.


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Re: AR-10 [Re: john_pifer] #4504438
09/01/17 01:34 PM
09/01/17 01:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,316
Santa Barbara, CA
bdcardinal Offline
bdcardinal  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 11,316
Santa Barbara, CA
I have a Smith and Wesson M&P 10. It is very picky on ammo, but other than that it is a great gun. I haven't bought optics yet since anything decent costs as much as other things I keep buying.


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Opinions expressed are my own.
Re: AR-10 [Re: john_pifer] #4504473
09/01/17 02:06 PM
09/01/17 02:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Mine is a DPMS AP-4 Carbine in .308. It's been a very good running, accurate rifle. Astro 14 has one as well. I'm sure he'll chime in here with the positive results he's had with his as well. It's a nice, well built weapon for the money. (Right around $1K to $1,100.00). Like most AR platform rifles, they like a lot of lube, and run better on hot ammo.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yiOkq5t.jpg?2[/img]

Re: AR-10 [Re: john_pifer] #4504474
09/01/17 02:06 PM
09/01/17 02:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
I am looking at getting a 5.56mm rifle and am pondering the same kinds of issues.
My limited understanding is that the direct gas impingement system is lighter than one using a gas piston, but the former is more susceptible to fouling and requires more maintenance. I talked to a gun salesman who is a former Marine who said he has had dozens of AR type rifles (including service weapons) and has never had a feed problem, but he admitted that he was extremely proficient at and fanatical about maintenance.
I was thinking gas piston and looked at a Mini 14 Ranch, liked everything about it but the price. I know I can get an AR type for much less, but am worried about being able to maintain it properly. The only other gas piston models I found in 5.56mm that weren't expensive were Chinese and Russian models, not too excited about those.
Still thinking about this and am interested to see what comments show up here.


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Re: AR-10 [Re: Virtus_Probi] #4504482
09/01/17 02:13 PM
09/01/17 02:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,142
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I was thinking gas piston and looked at a Mini 14 Ranch, liked everything about it but the price. I know I can get an AR type for much less, but am worried about being able to maintain it properly.


The AR platform is much easier to clean and maintain than the Mini 14. It field strips and goes back together like child's play. You can also easily replace things like firing pins, extractors, bolts, etc. The Mini 14, not so much.

Re: AR-10 [Re: john_pifer] #4504505
09/01/17 02:28 PM
09/01/17 02:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,653
Central IA
Robenstein Offline
Robenstein  Offline
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5,653
Central IA
I say just make sure the AR10 you get takes the SR25/Magpul mags so you have a ready supply of cheap and good magazines. The only thing I tend to dislike about the AR10 is that unlike its diminutive brother the AR15, there is not a standard "Spec". Other than that it is a perfectly serviceable firearm platform, although I have always preferred the other battle rifies. I currently have a metric FAL kit build and a PTR 91 for my 7.62 NATO guns. They aren't lightweight, but they have decades of proven track records, and I just dig having something outside the ubiquitous AR.


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Re: AR-10 [Re: billt460] #4504535
09/01/17 02:56 PM
09/01/17 02:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,225
New England
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
I was thinking gas piston and looked at a Mini 14 Ranch, liked everything about it but the price. I know I can get an AR type for much less, but am worried about being able to maintain it properly.


The AR platform is much easier to clean and maintain than the Mini 14. It field strips and goes back together like child's play. You can also easily replace things like firing pins, extractors, bolts, etc. The Mini 14, not so much.


Great info, thank you!
I found one blog online that swore that the whole AR fouling problem was due to people being too aggressive about cleaning and getting solvents/oils into the gas tube itself, where they would burn and leave ash that led to the fouling. No idea if this is really the case, but it did catch my attention.


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Re: AR-10 [Re: john_pifer] #4504615
09/01/17 04:36 PM
09/01/17 04:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 363
OR, USA
bsmithwins Offline
bsmithwins  Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 363
OR, USA
1) There isn't any standardization for 762 NATO ARs, as was mentioned. Make sure to have basic spares to keep the rifle running.
2) Gas piston is going to weigh more than DI. Keeping a DI AR running is more a matter of keeping it wet enough to run, no need to be meticulous about removing every spec of powder fouling. I've seen a bunch of ARs that were too dry to work, I've yet to see one that was wet but had too much powder fouling to function.
3) The barrel is another place to save a lot of weight, with thinner profiled barrels dropping the most weight. Personally, I'd probably want at least 18" barrel on a 762 NATO rifle, but that's just me.

BSW

Re: AR-10 [Re: billt460] #4504616
09/01/17 04:38 PM
09/01/17 04:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: billt460
Mine is a DPMS AP-4 Carbine in .308. It's been a very good running, accurate rifle. Astro 14 has one as well. I'm sure he'll chime in here with the positive results he's had with his as well. It's a nice, well built weapon for the money. (Right around $1K to $1,100.00). Like most AR platform rifles, they like a lot of lube, and run better on hot ammo.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yiOkq5t.jpg?2[/img]


I do! Great memory, Bill..

I love it. Easy to shoot. Accurate*. Reasonably priced. Carbine length is practical and allows for a variety of shooting needs. Handles every ammo type that I've tried. It likes lots of lube (but not Remoil). Recoil is surprisingly mild. I've got a limb-saver gel pad on the standard adjustable stock. It's a pussycat compared with a lightweight .308 hunting rifle.

If I could only own one rifle, and needed it to do everything, hands down this would be my pick.

DI is a lot cheaper than piston, and a bit lighter, with the only drawback being that it gets dirty quicker and needs cleaning more often. Keep it "wet" and you'll never have an issue with reliability. The G2 version has some improvements over mine but I'm not trading up.

*iron sights, 25 yards, the holes are all touching. At 100 yards, it's holding about an inch, but that's with iron sights. With an optic, it's at least a 1 MOA rifle despite the carbine length, which Is impressive. DPMS has some picky break in procedures. I bought a bore snake and followed them to the letter.

Last edited by Astro14; 09/01/17 04:42 PM.

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Re: AR-10 [Re: Astro14] #4504930
09/01/17 09:54 PM
09/01/17 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,940
PV Az
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,940
PV Az
Originally Posted By: Astro14

*iron sights, 25 yards, the holes are all touching. At 100 yards, it's holding about an inch, but that's with iron sights. With an optic, it's at least a 1 MOA rifle despite the carbine length, which Is impressive. DPMS has some picky break in procedures. I bought a bore snake and followed them to the letter.


You're saying you shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with iron sights? That is MOA, what's it do with a scope? Not sure which is more impressive, the rifle or the shooter.


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Re: AR-10 [Re: Robenstein] #4505027
09/02/17 02:51 AM
09/02/17 02:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,208
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Online content
JohnnyJohnson  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,208
Wet side WA
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I say just make sure the AR10 you get takes the SR25/Magpul mags so you have a ready supply of cheap and good magazines. The only thing I tend to dislike about the AR10 is that unlike its diminutive brother the AR15, there is not a standard "Spec". Other than that it is a perfectly serviceable firearm platform, although I have always preferred the other battle rifies. I currently have a metric FAL kit build and a PTR 91 for my 7.62 NATO guns. They aren't lightweight, but they have decades of proven track records, and I just dig having something outside the ubiquitous AR.


I agree with that and that's why I'm sticking with my Springfield M1A. When I do my part it will really shoot pretty well its a NM rifle.


Last edited by JohnnyJohnson; 09/02/17 02:53 AM.

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Re: AR-10 [Re: AZjeff] #4505343
09/02/17 11:19 AM
09/02/17 11:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: Astro14

*iron sights, 25 yards, the holes are all touching. At 100 yards, it's holding about an inch, but that's with iron sights. With an optic, it's at least a 1 MOA rifle despite the carbine length, which Is impressive. DPMS has some picky break in procedures. I bought a bore snake and followed them to the letter.


You're saying you shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with iron sights? That is MOA, what's it do with a scope? Not sure which is more impressive, the rifle or the shooter.


Honestly - my first five shots with it ever were at 25 yards, with irons, and I had it off hand but I was leaning against the lane divider, and the shots were all touching. Could've covered them with a nickel. I was really stoked.

I've shot about 1.5" groups at 100 yards with irons with that rifle. It's really impressive. Maybe I got lucky, but my feeling is that it's limited by the irons and by me.

That's why I think it would be better with a scope ... but for a carbine, it's way more accurate than I would have anticipated...


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Re: AR-10 [Re: Astro14] #4505347
09/02/17 11:21 AM
09/02/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Online content OP
john_pifer  Online Content OP
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,103
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: AZjeff
Originally Posted By: Astro14

*iron sights, 25 yards, the holes are all touching. At 100 yards, it's holding about an inch, but that's with iron sights. With an optic, it's at least a 1 MOA rifle despite the carbine length, which Is impressive. DPMS has some picky break in procedures. I bought a bore snake and followed them to the letter.


You're saying you shoot 1" groups at 100 yards with iron sights? That is MOA, what's it do with a scope? Not sure which is more impressive, the rifle or the shooter.


Honestly - my first five shots with it ever were at 25 yards, with irons, and I had it off hand but I was leaning against the lane divider, and the shots were all touching. Could've covered them with a nickel. I was really stoked.

I've shot about 1.5" groups at 100 yards with irons with that rifle. It's really impressive. Maybe I got lucky, but my feeling is that it's limited by the irons and by me.

That's why I think it would be better with a scope ... but for a carbine, it's way more accurate than I would have anticipated...


Astro, is yours 16"?


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Re: AR-10 [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #4505366
09/02/17 11:29 AM
09/02/17 11:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Johnny - that Springfield M1A is on my short list. It's a sweet rifle. I love my 3 Garands, and while they shoot great, the NM is more accurate, while still maintaining the romance of walnut and steel...


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Re: AR-10 [Re: john_pifer] #4505599
09/02/17 04:30 PM
09/02/17 04:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Astro14 Online content
Astro14  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,784
Virginia Beach
Yes. Mine is the AP-4 carbine version of the DPMS LR-308.


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