Texas refineries shut down

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But gas/diesel prices are holding steady here in the east. When the news of several large refineries shutting down due to Harvey came out, I figured fuel prices would go up all over the US.
 
Just wait. NYMEX has been on a steady up on distilled product and crude with no home now going down 3% today. 20 cent gain in gas since last week. Was on tv about the increasing prices to start to hit soon.
 
Southeast US is going to see most of the price spike. Upper Midwest has their own refineries with crude being brought up from OK or down from ND or Canada.
 
I wouldn't worry about gas too much. What I am concerned about is how much money it is going to take to restore the affected areas to pre-Harvey conditions.
 
In Florida Everytime we build a building or build a road it gets several retention ponds.
I seen none in Houston during the areal view. Even coming in to Orlando on a plane you see all the ponds it looks like your landing in a swamp.
Granted that's alot of rain but it looks like very bad planning on how to get rid of water for a coastal area.
I know Florida also rerouted all it's discharges to levies and holding ponds after severe floods when we got four in a row in 06. It was actually water coming up out of the drains flooding. It looks like that area will be in for a whole revamped storm water drainage with alot less buildings and slot more holding ponds.
 
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
I wouldn't worry about gas too much. What I am concerned about is how much money it is going to take to restore the affected areas to pre-Harvey conditions.


Natural disasters are unfortunate and normal. They happen somewhere in US, we fix it and move on. Cost of doing business so to speak.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
In Florida Everytime we build a building or build a road it gets several retention ponds.
I seen none in Houston during the areal view. Even coming in to Orlando on a plane you see all the ponds it looks like your landing in a swamp.
Granted that's alot of rain but it looks like very bad planning on how to get rid of water for a coastal area.
I know Florida also rerouted all it's discharges to levies and holding ponds after severe floods when we got four in a row in 06. It was actually water coming up out of the drains flooding. It looks like that area will be in for a whole revamped storm water drainage with alot less buildings and slot more holding ponds.


TX in general, and Houston area in particular, have been very lax in regulating storm water management as part of development. That was my area of expertise for 20 years and I heard lots of stories about TX ...

Go-go developers were good for their economy when W was governor, but now they get to pay the price of poor planning and lax regulation ...
 
Never mind the first 22 retention ponds and then reservoirs filled with record rain from a stalled system that only moved to turn back - (BTW - prior to storm we have been lush green in mid August - wonder why??????) - the main bayous and rivers are full - but lets make this "W" - Houston is not ruled by -------- ...So tell us how you do this a few miles from the coast where it all drains south ...
I watched this radar day after day and we never had anything like this - we have a few areas flood - but the city rolls on. (I'm from here, 62 years old)
I'd gladly get rid of cheap money and illegal labor for starters if that's what you mean ...
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman

I seen none in Houston during the areal view. Even coming in to Orlando on a plane you see all the ponds it looks like your landing in a swamp.
Granted that's alot of rain but it looks like very bad planning on how to get rid of water for a coastal area.


The entire freeway/highway system in Houston was DESIGNED to be "drainage".
That why you see photos of traffic lights almost in the water - just doing its job.

Refineries there will be back on in 10 days.
 
Luckily gas is cheap enough that the minor spikes wont hurt too much. As a Houston resident I do agree there has been poor planning. A lot of houses have been built around me where the area is filled with creeks in what was once a flat prarie. Every day it seems more concrete is taking over to build another strip center or fast food joint. My house is dry but it's no coincidence. I looked at the floodplain maps before construction started.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
In Florida Everytime we build a building or build a road it gets several retention ponds.
I seen none in Houston during the areal view. Even coming in to Orlando on a plane you see all the ponds it looks like your landing in a swamp.
Granted that's alot of rain but it looks like very bad planning on how to get rid of water for a coastal area.
I know Florida also rerouted all it's discharges to levies and holding ponds after severe floods when we got four in a row in 06. It was actually water coming up out of the drains flooding. It looks like that area will be in for a whole revamped storm water drainage with alot less buildings and slot more holding ponds.


TX in general, and Houston area in particular, have been very lax in regulating storm water management as part of development. That was my area of expertise for 20 years and I heard lots of stories about TX ...

Go-go developers were good for their economy when W was governor, but now they get to pay the price of poor planning and lax regulation ...


So now it's Bush's fault ? Where have I heard that before ?
 
Originally Posted By: Neely97
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
In Florida Everytime we build a building or build a road it gets several retention ponds.
I seen none in Houston during the areal view. Even coming in to Orlando on a plane you see all the ponds it looks like your landing in a swamp.
Granted that's alot of rain but it looks like very bad planning on how to get rid of water for a coastal area.
I know Florida also rerouted all it's discharges to levies and holding ponds after severe floods when we got four in a row in 06. It was actually water coming up out of the drains flooding. It looks like that area will be in for a whole revamped storm water drainage with alot less buildings and slot more holding ponds.


TX in general, and Houston area in particular, have been very lax in regulating storm water management as part of development. That was my area of expertise for 20 years and I heard lots of stories about TX ...

Go-go developers were good for their economy when W was governor, but now they get to pay the price of poor planning and lax regulation ...


So now it's Bush's fault ? Where have I heard that before ?



It's the way of the world, blame someone else !
 
Honestly, I doubt there is anyplace in the US that could take that kind of rain hit without severe trouble.

One of the Northeast hurricanes stalled over the Whites where we have a ski condo and the drainage was fine...just way too fast, ripped out roads and bridges left and right. One of the condo developments in our town was in some peril due to a severely eroding riverbank, certainly seemed to be far enough from that river before the rushing water got to work. I'm sure this was all with a lot less rain than Houston is due to get...
 
One member posted that his daughters home has flooded 3 times in 2 years in Houston. Theres a problem well before Harvey:(

Fargo ND had problems with flooding and are making major efforts to prevent it but some of the issues were they were scared to implement ice removal methods
 
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Originally Posted By: Neely97
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
In Florida Everytime we build a building or build a road it gets several retention ponds.
I seen none in Houston during the areal view. Even coming in to Orlando on a plane you see all the ponds it looks like your landing in a swamp.
Granted that's alot of rain but it looks like very bad planning on how to get rid of water for a coastal area.
I know Florida also rerouted all it's discharges to levies and holding ponds after severe floods when we got four in a row in 06. It was actually water coming up out of the drains flooding. It looks like that area will be in for a whole revamped storm water drainage with alot less buildings and slot more holding ponds.


TX in general, and Houston area in particular, have been very lax in regulating storm water management as part of development. That was my area of expertise for 20 years and I heard lots of stories about TX ...

Go-go developers were good for their economy when W was governor, but now they get to pay the price of poor planning and lax regulation ...


So now it's Bush's fault ? Where have I heard that before ?
+ 1 ROFL.
Hereabouts, LOCAL zoning and planning boards make the calls on storm water control.
 
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No one plans drainage for 3' feet of rain fall though... Most places will have minor street and basement flooding with 6" rain in couple hours.
 
As far as W is concerned , I voted against which ever Dem he ran against . He certainly was not my first choice . Neither was his Father .

Having said that , seems like he has gotten blame for many more things ( after he left office ) than he ever actually did ( while he was in office ) .

Have not had anyone I wished to vote FOR , since Reagan . :-(

As for the hurricane , I live a long way from the coast . But we do have tornadoes .

Yesterday I called our oldest boy in Katy . They live in a nice section of Katy . They were still high and dry , still had power & water . Thank God , :)

Going to be a big insurance premium increase , I am guessing nation wide ?

Pray for all that are impacted by the hurricane , floods , etc .
 
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