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#4499957 - 08/28/17 01:20 AM Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant
Krieg Offline


Registered: 07/23/17
Posts: 43
Loc: USA
What is the hype with fleece filters made in Germany? I read an article indicating the nano fleece is down to 5 microns. MB go 20 to 30 KM between oil changes. Why doesn't API ILSAC adopt these changes. I understand they regulate oil, but. Maybe I'm looking at in a simplistic form. Granted there are many variables. Could I be mistaken and synthetic filters are better? Just thinking late at night.
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#4499959 - 08/28/17 01:42 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
ZeeOSix Offline


Registered: 07/22/10
Posts: 17928
Loc: PNW
Originally Posted By: Krieg
What is the hype with fleece filters made in Germany? I read an article indicating the nano fleece is down to 5 microns. MB go 20 to 30 KM between oil changes,

"Down to 5 microns" can mean it simply catches some 5 micron particles. It's just marketing language.

20 to 30 km is 12400 to 18640 miles. Fram Ultra catches plenty of particles "down to 5 microns", and the new version of the Ultra is rated to 20000 miles. So comprible or maybe even better than a fleece filter.

API doesn't care about oil filters. Only way to compare performance is to look at ISO 4548-12 testing results to compare efficiency ratings.

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#4500008 - 08/28/17 05:11 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
Garak Offline


Registered: 12/05/09
Posts: 24764
Loc: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
They seem to really push the fleece filters for duration, rather than efficiency. In the application guides I've seen, there are also paper filters available for most of those applications from the same manufacturer (i.e. a Mann fleece and an ordinary Mann for the same vehicle).
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#4500045 - 08/28/17 06:47 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
Driz Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 292
Loc: northern NY
The German testing organization TUV has likely massaged and rated those. If you can translate it they probably have some sort of ratings and test results on the net.

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#4500070 - 08/28/17 07:21 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: ZeeOSix]
BigD1 Offline


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 2580
Loc: NC
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
"Down to 5 microns" can mean it simply catches some 5 micron particles. It's just marketing language.


A window/door screen can catch 5 micron particles, but, obviously, the efficiency would be terrible.
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#4500099 - 08/28/17 08:04 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: BigD1]
blupupher Offline


Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 4492
Loc: Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
"Down to 5 microns" can mean it simply catches some 5 micron particles. It's just marketing language.


A window/door screen can catch 5 micron particles, but, obviously, the efficiency would be terrible.

it can also be 99% efficient, at 100,000,000 passes.

Isn't there a point of diminishing returns of filtration? Are there clearances and areas that <20 microns is an issue and causing damage?
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#4500150 - 08/28/17 09:06 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: blupupher]
oil_film_movies Offline


Registered: 06/13/16
Posts: 2634
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: blupupher
Isn't there a point of diminishing returns of filtration? Are there clearances and areas that <20 microns is an issue and causing damage?
Returns do diminish as particles get smaller. They can lodge inside surface imperfections (aperities), yet they still are abrasive as oil film thickness fluctuates from none to substantial.

Much of an engine has to operate in near-zero oil film thicknesses. This is due to the limits of machine design. Not all of the inside of an engine has fully hydrodynamic surfing of oil films. It depends on where inside and engine and also how fast the parts are moving past each other, as well as the viscosity of the oil.

Bottom line: Oil film thickness ranges from ZERO to 200 microns or so.
That means ANY gritty particle scratches metal or Babbit surfaces.

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#4500155 - 08/28/17 09:10 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
goodtimes Offline


Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 2912
Loc: california
The Mann fleece filter elements are available in the American made Purolator Boss filter line. Comparing both, MB and Boss, they look the same, and Mann owns Purolator, pretty safe assumption. The efficiency on multi pass testing is 99+%. The micron value is 40 at that efficiency I believe.

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#4500249 - 08/28/17 10:43 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
Wolf359 Online   content


Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 4906
Loc: MA
Have you seen the prices on one of these filters? These aren't just $5 canister filters. They're usually like at least $15-$20 for a filter, at least for my car. It can be a pretty good deal on an oil change special where they throw in the filter, but not if they have language that says you pay the price difference instead of it just being free.

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#4500256 - 08/28/17 10:48 AM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
Johnny2Bad Offline


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 1910
Loc: Saskatchewan, Canada
The real question to ask is how do they flow.

Put another way, what is the oil pressure drop after installing this type of filter, and how does that value compare to a conventional filter? If you can't answer that, I'm not buying, period.

Any filter can perform down to 5 microns, or 1 micron for that matter. They just don't flow any oil.
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#4500442 - 08/28/17 02:12 PM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: goodtimes]
Krieg Offline


Registered: 07/23/17
Posts: 43
Loc: USA
Yes, I read your earlier post on it. Interesting!
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#4500478 - 08/28/17 03:38 PM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 2007
Loc: NJ
it's down to the automakers recommending them, not the oil companies and oil groups.
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#4500578 - 08/28/17 06:02 PM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
slacktide_bitog Offline


Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 6388
Loc: USA
Purolator is trying to promote them, with the Boss. Fleece media and plastic mesh.

But I remember something from Fram saying that the particles smaller than 10 microns aren't an issue, and that the 10-20 micron size particles are the ones to worry about.

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#4500786 - 08/28/17 09:29 PM Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg]
JohnnyJohnson Online   content


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2908
Loc: Wet side WA
I think its for the same reason we don't like our women in fleece thongs!
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