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Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant #4499957
08/28/17 01:20 AM
08/28/17 01:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 43
USA
Krieg Offline OP
Krieg  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 43
USA
What is the hype with fleece filters made in Germany? I read an article indicating the nano fleece is down to 5 microns. MB go 20 to 30 KM between oil changes. Why doesn't API ILSAC adopt these changes. I understand they regulate oil, but. Maybe I'm looking at in a simplistic form. Granted there are many variables. Could I be mistaken and synthetic filters are better? Just thinking late at night.


N�l an luach an maith ar a dtugtar go dt� go dt�ann s� tirim
Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4499959
08/28/17 01:42 AM
08/28/17 01:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 18,941
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
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Posts: 18,941
PNW
Originally Posted By: Krieg
What is the hype with fleece filters made in Germany? I read an article indicating the nano fleece is down to 5 microns. MB go 20 to 30 KM between oil changes,

"Down to 5 microns" can mean it simply catches some 5 micron particles. It's just marketing language.

20 to 30 km is 12400 to 18640 miles. Fram Ultra catches plenty of particles "down to 5 microns", and the new version of the Ultra is rated to 20000 miles. So comprible or maybe even better than a fleece filter.

API doesn't care about oil filters. Only way to compare performance is to look at ISO 4548-12 testing results to compare efficiency ratings.

Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500008
08/28/17 05:11 AM
08/28/17 05:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,634
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Online content
Garak  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 25,634
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
They seem to really push the fleece filters for duration, rather than efficiency. In the application guides I've seen, there are also paper filters available for most of those applications from the same manufacturer (i.e. a Mann fleece and an ordinary Mann for the same vehicle).


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500045
08/28/17 06:47 AM
08/28/17 06:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 331
northern NY
Driz Offline
Driz  Offline
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Posts: 331
northern NY
The German testing organization TUV has likely massaged and rated those. If you can translate it they probably have some sort of ratings and test results on the net.

Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: ZeeOSix] #4500070
08/28/17 07:21 AM
08/28/17 07:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,800
NC
BigD1 Offline
BigD1  Offline
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Posts: 2,800
NC
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
"Down to 5 microns" can mean it simply catches some 5 micron particles. It's just marketing language.


A window/door screen can catch 5 micron particles, but, obviously, the efficiency would be terrible.


1992 Toyota Pickup--Harvest King Premium 10W-30--Fram PH3614
Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: BigD1] #4500099
08/28/17 08:04 AM
08/28/17 08:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,715
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline
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Posts: 4,715
Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
"Down to 5 microns" can mean it simply catches some 5 micron particles. It's just marketing language.


A window/door screen can catch 5 micron particles, but, obviously, the efficiency would be terrible.

it can also be 99% efficient, at 100,000,000 passes.

Isn't there a point of diminishing returns of filtration? Are there clearances and areas that <20 microns is an issue and causing damage?


'12 Scion xB: QSUD 0w20/CQ Blue/5k
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Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: blupupher] #4500150
08/28/17 09:06 AM
08/28/17 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,262
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
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Posts: 3,262
MN
Originally Posted By: blupupher
Isn't there a point of diminishing returns of filtration? Are there clearances and areas that <20 microns is an issue and causing damage?
Returns do diminish as particles get smaller. They can lodge inside surface imperfections (aperities), yet they still are abrasive as oil film thickness fluctuates from none to substantial.

Much of an engine has to operate in near-zero oil film thicknesses. This is due to the limits of machine design. Not all of the inside of an engine has fully hydrodynamic surfing of oil films. It depends on where inside and engine and also how fast the parts are moving past each other, as well as the viscosity of the oil.

Bottom line: Oil film thickness ranges from ZERO to 200 microns or so.
That means ANY gritty particle scratches metal or Babbit surfaces.

Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500155
08/28/17 09:10 AM
08/28/17 09:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,084
Tennessee
goodtimes Offline
goodtimes  Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,084
Tennessee
The Mann fleece filter elements are available in the American made Purolator Boss filter line. Comparing both, MB and Boss, they look the same, and Mann owns Purolator, pretty safe assumption. The efficiency on multi pass testing is 99+%. The micron value is 40 at that efficiency I believe.

Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500249
08/28/17 10:43 AM
08/28/17 10:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,292
MA
Wolf359 Online content
Wolf359  Online Content
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,292
MA
Have you seen the prices on one of these filters? These aren't just $5 canister filters. They're usually like at least $15-$20 for a filter, at least for my car. It can be a pretty good deal on an oil change special where they throw in the filter, but not if they have language that says you pay the price difference instead of it just being free.

Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500256
08/28/17 10:48 AM
08/28/17 10:48 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,094
Saskatchewan, Canada
Johnny2Bad Offline
Johnny2Bad  Offline
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Posts: 2,094
Saskatchewan, Canada
The real question to ask is how do they flow.

Put another way, what is the oil pressure drop after installing this type of filter, and how does that value compare to a conventional filter? If you can't answer that, I'm not buying, period.

Any filter can perform down to 5 microns, or 1 micron for that matter. They just don't flow any oil.


'57 FL Straight 50 wt
'90 Miata 1.8L w/Rotrex Supercharger [Mobil1 0W-40]
'96 Ram 1500 [3.7L Mobil1 0W-20 / 1L 15W-50]
'01 PT Cruiser [Mobil1 0W-40]
Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: goodtimes] #4500442
08/28/17 02:12 PM
08/28/17 02:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 43
USA
Krieg Offline OP
Krieg  Offline OP
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 43
USA
Yes, I read your earlier post on it. Interesting!


N�l an luach an maith ar a dtugtar go dt� go dt�ann s� tirim
Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500478
08/28/17 03:38 PM
08/28/17 03:38 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,035
SoCal
UG_Passat Offline
UG_Passat  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,035
SoCal
it's down to the automakers recommending them, not the oil companies and oil groups.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500578
08/28/17 06:02 PM
08/28/17 06:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,029
USA
slacktide_bitog Offline
slacktide_bitog  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,029
USA
Purolator is trying to promote them, with the Boss. Fleece media and plastic mesh.

But I remember something from Fram saying that the particles smaller than 10 microns aren't an issue, and that the 10-20 micron size particles are the ones to worry about.

Re: Why doesn't N America use Fleece filters? Advant [Re: Krieg] #4500786
08/28/17 09:29 PM
08/28/17 09:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,349
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,349
Wet side WA
I think its for the same reason we don't like our women in fleece thongs!


2004 Corolla 125425
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