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New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating #4499123
08/27/17 03:13 AM
08/27/17 03:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline OP
OneEyeJack  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
F1 teams have been using 2 oil tanks with different oils. A smaller oil tank with additives for improved combustion and increased power that are illegal in the fuel has been used for years and now the FAI has stopped the practice and is introducing new oil consumption limits.


Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499150
08/27/17 05:16 AM
08/27/17 05:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 49
South Oz, Australia
ozdrrider Offline
ozdrrider  Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 49
South Oz, Australia
I wonder what the additives were?????? Probably not TCW-3 I suspect.... grin


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Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499170
08/27/17 06:03 AM
08/27/17 06:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,156
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,156
Glendale, Arizona
I think they should simply resolve the whole issue by going to 2-Stroke engines. Try to imagine 20 cars on the grid, all going "Wing....Ding....Ding".... Until the lights go out! grin

Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499247
08/27/17 07:56 AM
08/27/17 07:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,003
IL
Vern_in_IL Offline
Vern_in_IL  Offline
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,003
IL
Stupid, it was fine as it was, instead of banning, they should allow all teams to use two oil tanks.


Racing is about man AND machine. It sucks when all the machines are the same, look at Nascar. The teams should be given some leway, and if they find something better, why not use it? Unfair advantage? well why spend millions on R&D?

The teams should be allowed to innovate on anything that does not impair safety.....

Last edited by Vern_in_IL; 08/27/17 08:00 AM.
Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499279
08/27/17 08:38 AM
08/27/17 08:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,567
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,567
Idaho
Moto GP a mans sport.


2015 Ford F150 2.7
2018 Ford F350 6.2
Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: Vern_in_IL] #4499298
08/27/17 08:50 AM
08/27/17 08:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,655
Central Maryland
HangFire Offline
HangFire  Offline
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,655
Central Maryland
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
The teams should be allowed to innovate on anything that does not impair safety.....


Too high a top speed is a safety issue. So is too much disparity in speed between cars. Most rules like this aim at reducing one or both of these issues.


Various musings: http://hangfire.net
Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499311
08/27/17 09:05 AM
08/27/17 09:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 3,566
MN
Racing is about the closest running and finishes to make it exciting for the fans, not an experimental prototype proving ground.
Make the cars identical, or nearly so, and it becomes about how well the humans (driver, pit, management) execute the mission.
Thats a good thing.

Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499326
08/27/17 09:21 AM
08/27/17 09:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
SonofJoe Offline
SonofJoe  Offline
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,224
Europe
Interesting...

As I understand things, the amount and type of fuel you're allowed in F1 is constrained by tight regulations. Now whilst engine oil's primary purpose is lubrication, it's also a handy source of hydrocarbons. If you can access say five litres of it as fuel, you might be able to get an extra couple of laps out of your car which might make a difference to your position in the race.

On a normal car, if you have a high Noack oil, hot blow-by gas will, under the right circumstances, strip out the light front-end of your oil, recirculate it through the PCV & air intake systems to be burnt. It's why I bang on about avoiding high Noack oils. However, from an F1 point-of-view, this is a perfect mechanism for routing oil to the combustion chambers and extracting it's innate energy. Light, high volatility engine oils might be even preferred since your not right bothered about engine wear & longevity; only that the engine delivers 'the max', for the couple of hours duration of the race.

Last edited by SonofJoe; 08/27/17 09:23 AM.
Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499361
08/27/17 09:57 AM
08/27/17 09:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
OneEyeJack Offline OP
OneEyeJack  Offline OP
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,485
S California
The additives can settle out of the oil and with a tank designed, baffled and plumbed just right the additives can be introduced into the combustion chambers for that extra surge of power or that extra few laps.

Next thing might be a Smokey Yunick fuel line. Fans of NASCAR racing when the teams build their own race cars their own way will know what that is and understand how it works.

Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: oil_film_movies] #4499548
08/27/17 02:26 PM
08/27/17 02:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,184
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Online content
Garak  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,184
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Racing is about the closest running and finishes to make it exciting for the fans, not an experimental prototype proving ground.
Make the cars identical, or nearly so, and it becomes about how well the humans (driver, pit, management) execute the mission.

Turn F1 into a spec series, and there will be no one left racing. There are all kinds of spec series out there.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: Garak] #4499593
08/27/17 03:38 PM
08/27/17 03:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,156
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,156
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Garak
Turn F1 into a spec series, and there will be no one left racing. There are all kinds of spec series out there.


If things get boring, just do what they did. Hire drivers like Perez and Ocon to spice things up. And if they start behaving too much, hire Maldonado back to start wrecking people.

Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: OneEyeJack] #4499603
08/27/17 03:44 PM
08/27/17 03:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,156
Glendale, Arizona
billt460 Offline
billt460  Offline
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,156
Glendale, Arizona
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Next thing might be a Smokey Yunick fuel line. Fans of NASCAR racing when the teams build their own race cars their own way will know what that is and understand how it works.


Didn't he fill the roll bar up with gas one time? I thought he had a tee connection under the floorboards with a solenoid the driver activated under the dash, that allowed the driver to stay out and win the race without coming in for a, "splash and go". It held an extra 3 gallons or so. He also built a reverse rotation engine, so the torque would help the car turn, instead of the driver always fighting it. He was a genius, and way ahead of his time.

Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: billt460] #4499911
08/27/17 10:03 PM
08/27/17 10:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,184
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Online content
Garak  Online Content
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 26,184
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Originally Posted By: billt460
If things get boring, just do what they did. Hire drivers like Perez and Ocon to spice things up. And if they start behaving too much, hire Maldonado back to start wrecking people.

Exactly. People, including me, laugh when Pastor says he could make a comeback. At least Pastor stood on the top step once, though he's far short of the points that Perez got over the years.

You wouldn't have heard it in the U.S., but Martin Brundle was pretty blunt about Alonso this weekend. Crofty was doing the usual pity party for Fernando, how poor the Honda performance and reliability is and how there's no room for him in another top team, and how everything is just so wrong for such a great talent. Martin reminded that Alonso was the architect of his own troubles with other teams. I'm sure Alonso must be wringing his hands right now. If he dumps McLaren for something else (if he can find someone who'll have him, and it won't be Mercedes, Red Bull, or Ferrari), we may see Honda get its act in order. Renault isn't far ahead of Honda for power and reliability. Alonso is just providing the publicity. If he was in Verstappen's Red Bull, he'd be saying the same things about Renault and Red Bull that he does about Honda. As much as Alonso is regretting Honda's issues, I'm sure Honda is wondering why they are helping finance this loudmouth prima donna's ride.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, NAPA Gold 7356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: ozdrrider] #4500452
08/28/17 01:39 PM
08/28/17 01:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
mightymousetech Offline
mightymousetech  Offline
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,481
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: ozdrrider
I wonder what the additives were?????? Probably not TCW-3 I suspect.... grin


Toluene. wink


Mighty Mouse Tech
BMW Tech, Former Acura Tech
2010 Civic Si Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
2013 BMW 135i M Sport Edition Castrol 0W40, Redline MTL
Re: New F1 oil consumption rules to stop cheating [Re: Garak] #4500729
08/28/17 07:33 PM
08/28/17 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,462
Georgia
DeepFriar Offline
DeepFriar  Offline
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,462
Georgia
Originally Posted By: Garak
You wouldn't have heard it in the U.S., but Martin Brundle was pretty blunt about Alonso this weekend. Crofty was doing the usual pity party for Fernando, how poor the Honda performance and reliability is and how there's no room for him in another top team, and how everything is just so wrong for such a great talent. Martin reminded that Alonso was the architect of his own troubles with other teams. I'm sure Alonso must be wringing his hands right now. If he dumps McLaren for something else (if he can find someone who'll have him, and it won't be Mercedes, Red Bull, or Ferrari), we may see Honda get its act in order. Renault isn't far ahead of Honda for power and reliability. Alonso is just providing the publicity. If he was in Verstappen's Red Bull, he'd be saying the same things about Renault and Red Bull that he does about Honda. As much as Alonso is regretting Honda's issues, I'm sure Honda is wondering why they are helping finance this loudmouth prima donna's ride.


Coupla things I agree with you there. He has rather poisoned a few wells. Honda pays him BIG money so shut up or quit. I still think he got off easy for the Fabio sponsored fake trip into the wall. I respect his abilities but I don't feel bad for him.

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