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Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. #4498521
08/26/17 09:55 AM
08/26/17 09:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 748
Denmark
shDK Offline OP
shDK  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 748
Denmark
Hi all.

6 month ago we bought a 3 year old Toyota with a 1.6 valvematic engine. The engine runs great and is a really nice engine. But one thing bothered me..a lot. The engine had a faint but really noticeable knocking sound from the cylinderhead/valvetrain. It goes away above 1000 rpm's.

So.. I went to the dealer. They send out a mechanic he listened. And apparently it is perfectly normal. All Toyota valvematic engines do it. And the reason. A cam driven vacuum pump. He explained that due to the function of the valvematic system. The engine had no traditional throttlebody. And therefore no vacuum in the intake to support the brake system. Therefore they mounted a vacuum pump. Just like if it was a diesel. Or turbo engine.

It really does give the engine a bit rough idle sound. And not something I like to listen to.

But how normal is this to newer engine design. Any other engine makers who makes there engines like this? Or is it just Toyota?

Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498541
08/26/17 10:21 AM
08/26/17 10:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,755
The Midwest
skyactiv Online content
skyactiv  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,755
The Midwest
You need to learn to live with it. Some newer engine designs are simply louder and it's for fuel economy and/or emissions. Mazdas Skyactiv engines are really loud when started on a cold day for the first minute.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498601
08/26/17 11:21 AM
08/26/17 11:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 6,226
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: shDK
....t due to the function of the valvematic system, The engine had no traditional throttlebody. And therefore no vacuum in the intake to support the brake system.

Any other engine makers who makes there engines like this?


Only other one I am aware of is BMW


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498607
08/26/17 11:26 AM
08/26/17 11:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,920
Illinois
SHOZ Offline
SHOZ  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 5,920
Illinois
On the Hyundai Genesis Coupe with the turbo and automatic transmission there is a vacuum pump for when the engine is in boost I guess.


2008 Hyundai Accent 1.6L 5 sp manual hatchback
2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe Track 2L Turbo 6sp manual
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498645
08/26/17 12:10 PM
08/26/17 12:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,276
San Antonio, TX
E150GT Offline
E150GT  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,276
San Antonio, TX
I am pretty sure the Mazda Skyactiv engines do have a vacuum pump. They have a throttle body but they also have weird valve timing that lowers vacuum. So I have read anyway.


1984 Mercedes-Benz 300SD - 100k
1995 F150 XL 4.9 reg cab 5MT - 251k 5w30
2016 Mazda6 Touring 6MT - 57k 10w30
2006 Buick Lucerne CXL 3.8 31k 5w30
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498666
08/26/17 12:39 PM
08/26/17 12:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,798
Central Washington
Colt45ws Offline
Colt45ws  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,798
Central Washington
Will probably become more common. The only other way I know of to do a brake booster is to use hydraulics aka hydroboost, but that runs off the power steering pump which is pretty much dead these days now in favor of electric power steering.


-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 75k
Castrol EDGE HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498677
08/26/17 12:52 PM
08/26/17 12:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 489
USA
E365 Offline
E365  Offline
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 489
USA
My Ford EcoBoost 1.0 has a mechanical vacuum pump.

As does my 2008 MINI Cooper S. Actually, those have been known to seize. That's how I got a great deal on a used MINI. The exhaust cam mounted vacuum pump seized, which seized the exhaust cam, which sheared off the exhaust cam sprocket bolt and bent a couple exhaust valves.

I plan on replacing them preventatively ever 75,000 miles or so.


Whatever’s on sale...
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498681
08/26/17 12:58 PM
08/26/17 12:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
HerrStig Offline
HerrStig  Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 9,560
Boston, MA
When the first level of save us from smog rules hit many car makers backed idle timing to zero advance or even AFTER TDC. This reduced idle vacuum to a very low level and VOLVO, for example, grafted a vacuum pump to the top of the valve cover. It was discovered by many that the pump could be removed and there would still be enough vacuum for brakes and HVAC switching. Cars have gone through many levelws of "anti smog" since and there's still smog in LA. Now they blame grills, lawn mowers, and motor bikes.

Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: Colt45ws] #4498709
08/26/17 01:46 PM
08/26/17 01:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,393
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Online content
CR94  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,393
Western S.C. since 1996
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Will probably become more common. ...
Yes, because manifold vacuum indicates wasted energy. Diesels, CVTs, Atkinson cycle engines, and the "valvematic" intake are all examples of ways to reduce the waste. Nothing says a mechanically or electrically driven vacuum pump has to be noisy, though.

Last edited by CR94; 08/26/17 01:47 PM.

2011 Toyota Prius now at 92K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: CR94] #4498728
08/26/17 02:18 PM
08/26/17 02:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 748
Denmark
shDK Offline OP
shDK  Offline OP
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 748
Denmark
Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Will probably become more common. ...
Yes, because manifold vacuum indicates wasted energy. Diesels, CVTs, Atkinson cycle engines, and the "valvematic" intake are all examples of ways to reduce the waste. Nothing says a mechanically or electrically driven vacuum pump has to be noisy, though.


Well..to be fair the pump is noisy due til the pumping action. It is the air moving you can hear. Not a mechanical noise. If you place your ear on the air filter box. It is also clear to hear the air pumping.

Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498738
08/26/17 02:30 PM
08/26/17 02:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,393
Western S.C. since 1996
CR94 Online content
CR94  Online Content
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,393
Western S.C. since 1996
They could've used a more expensive, quieter type of pump. Or could've muffled the existing one better, but that too would add cost, plus add weight, and take space. Fair trade-off or not? Automotive design involves numerous compromises.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 92K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498757
08/26/17 03:01 PM
08/26/17 03:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,362
Frankfort, Kentucky
Shaman Offline
Shaman  Offline
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,362
Frankfort, Kentucky
Saab 9-3 with the 2.8 have them.

Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4498920
08/26/17 07:44 PM
08/26/17 07:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,744
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,744
New Zealand
Back in the '50's and '60's when Fords had vacuum wipers - full throttle and the wipers stopped. The English Zephyr had a vacuum pump combined with the fuel pump, so there was vacuum for the wipers even under low manifold vacuum. There is never annything new.


1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: HerrStig] #4499094
08/27/17 01:06 AM
08/27/17 01:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,100
Kuwait
Falcon_LS Offline
Falcon_LS  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,100
Kuwait
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Now they blame grills, lawn mowers, and motor bikes.


Add cows to that list. smile


99 Explorer: H17W02/GC 0W40
00 Pajero: XG9688/MC 15W40
01 Grand Marquis: XG2/XCess 5W40
03 Expedition SSV: XG2/XCess 5W40
05 Envoy: XG9837/5W30 ESP
06 XJ8L: C2C41611/5W30 ESP
07 SRX: XG8765/5W30 ESP
Re: Vacuum pumps on petrol engines. [Re: shDK] #4499100
08/27/17 01:23 AM
08/27/17 01:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,595
Taiwan
Ducked Offline
Ducked  Offline
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 4,595
Taiwan
How about a return to non-servo brakes? I used to like them. Better brake feel, and made engine-off coasting on long descents much easier.

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